52. Terry Neese – Institute for Economic Empowerment of Women – Get Involved in Politics or Go Out of Business

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, thank you for joining us for another episode of How That Happened. I'm really excited about my guest today, Dr. Terry Neese. Dr. Terry Neese is a serial entrepreneur. She's founded numerous, both for-profit and non-profit organizations. And she would say her two most successful adventures to date include Neese Personnel Services, which is now run by her daughter, Kim, and the Institute for Economic Empowerment of Women, or IEEW. And we're going to spend some time talking about that quite a bit today.

Aaron Ackerman:

A successful business woman, Terry made history in 1990 when she became the first woman nominated by a major political party for the seat of Lieutenant Governor of Oklahoma. She was named an outstanding business leader by the Northwood University board of trustees in 2006, received an honorary doctor of law degree from the university in 2008. In 2013, she received the Enterprising Woman Legacy Award from the National Women Business Owners Corporation Leadership Award, and the Journal Record's Oklahoma's most admired CEO.

Aaron Ackerman:

In 2014, Dr. Neese was only the second woman to be honored with Oklahoma Sister Cities' Global Vision Award. Other notable accolades include, NAWBO's Lifetime Achievement Award. She's been appointed to numerous councils and positions with nominations by prominent leaders such as presidents George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush. In 2017, as a distinguished leader from the United States, Dr. Neese received the Global Goddess Artemis Award by the board of directors of the Euro-American Women's Council, its coalition partners and members. In 2018, Dr. Neese was honored as one of 100 Oklahoma Women Trailblazers by the League of Women Voters of Oklahoma in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of Oklahoma winning the right to vote. She's also been voted a top 50 Most Powerful Woman in Oklahoma since its inception in 2012.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, Terry, thank you so much for joining me. That is a... Probably didn't even list all of the awards, but very accomplished, and I'm really happy to have you on today to talk about several things. Thanks for joining.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Absolutely. It's good to see you, Aaron.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, you too. And I know that those recognitions and awards don't just happen because you're good, which you are good at business. We're going to talk about that, but also, a lot of that comes because you've volunteered. You've poured a lot of your energy over your career into not just your companies that you've started, but into some causes that you're really passionate about. And so I'm excited to talk about some of that. So I want to just start out asking a couple of general questions and just maybe the story of you to some extent, but why or how did you first become an entrepreneur?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I think it's when I was in high school. In my junior year in high school, I became a member of DECA Distributive Education Clubs of America. And I had to think back on that for a long ways. I was like, "Okay, DECA, that's really what got me hyped up on entrepreneurship." I actually took on, not only going to school, but I took on two jobs. One was with a clothes shop, Benny's Dress Shop. And the other was working at [McCrory's], which was a soda fountain. And I got to tell ya that I lasted one day at the soda fountain. It was so busy and so crazy, I just could not do it. I think I was 16 or 17 years old, so it was quite an eye opener for me. And the Benny's Clothes Shop was wonderful. Had good success there.

Aaron Ackerman:

Very cool. So let's see. So was your first business, would that be Neese Personnel Services?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

And that would have been, if I have in my notes right, maybe '75, '76.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I started Neese Personnel in 1975. And immediately thought, "I really need to buy my own building." And after about a year, I started looking for buildings to buy and I went to my husband and I talked to him about it. He's an accountant. I married an accountant and that was a good thing. And he said, "Listen, you've only been in business for a year. You can't do that." And I said, "Why not? We're doing well." So I purchased a building on Northwest 39th. And Aaron, we had so many issues there. The first year was great. Going into the second year, I did not know, when I bought the building, that Northwest 39th was being turned into Interstate 44. So we had no access into our building for two and a half years, therefore, having applicants who are looking for jobs, walking in tar.

Aaron Ackerman:

To get just into the office.

Dr. Terry Neese:

From 39 and to our building, but we survived. We survived.

Aaron Ackerman:

And it's still going strong today.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah. And then honestly, about six months after the I-44 was completed, my building burned down and I lost everything I had had.

Aaron Ackerman:

Had to start over.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah. There were no computers. We had no computers at that time. And we lost everything. We lost all of our invoices.

Aaron Ackerman:

You didn't know who owes you any money.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Right.

Aaron Ackerman:

What agreements you had.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Right.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow.

Dr. Terry Neese:

It was tough. But we weathered the storm. We moved into a building two doors down from us and we rebuilt the building. So life goes on. You just have to keep on going.

Aaron Ackerman:

So a couple of follow ups there. So when you started the business, what prompted you to decide to go out on your own? How did that happen for you to start Neese Personnel Services?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I actually had, Aaron, three staffing firms that went out of business that I worked for.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. You were an employee?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I was an employee. The last business that I worked for, they were trying to get me to stay on board because they were trying to sell their company to other people. And I did stay on board for two or three weeks and I thought, "Whoa, wait a minute. They're selling me. I'm going to go start my own company." And Aaron, I had zero money. So I just bootstrapped it.

Aaron Ackerman:

Just started with...

Dr. Terry Neese:

I found office space on Northwest Expressway and May Avenue and went in and talked to the owner of the building and told him my situation and that I was an excellent personnel staffing company and would he give me 30 to 45 days to pay the rent. And he did.

Aaron Ackerman:

And that got you started.

Dr. Terry Neese:

And that was it.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow. So then you had the trouble with the highway, the Interstate, and then your building burned down. So obviously, you got back on your feet, kept going, but what about the experience of starting that company impacted you in such a way that you wanted to not only repeat the process for yourself several times over, but really pour into helping other people do that as well?

Dr. Terry Neese:

It was such a high to find jobs for people. It was so exciting and liberating. And it was just amazing. My goal, initially, was to find one person a job every day. And then all of a sudden, that became more. I started finding five to 10 people a job every day. And that was cool. Then I started hiring consultants to come in and work. So we've been very, very fortunate to be alive in this community with all the things that happened to us for it'll be 46 years in July.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow. That is such an accomplishment. And I love... It's kind of funny too, like you said, you worked for three businesses that went out of business essentially, but you still thought, "I can do this. They failed, but I can do it." That didn't deter you.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I know. I look back on that and I just wasn't thinking, I just thought, "Okay, I can do this. These people are not doing it right. And I can do it right. And so I want to start my own company." And I put my tentacles in and went for it and we were so successful. And obviously, God has blessed me.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, I would like to think, and you'd probably agree with this, Terry, but what you said just a second ago, maybe a lot of the reason why you've been successful and you weren't chasing the next sale, the next commission. You were thinking about your candidates and you got this high from helping someone get a job. And I'm sure you are thinking, "Man, they changed their family. They changed their financial situation." Or whatever by getting this good job and you got to help them do that. That was your focus, not, "What's my rate? What's my commission? How much am I going to make?" That usually eventually runs its course. People won't continue to do business with somebody that's always chasing the next sale. But you were really candidate-centric, it sounds like.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I definitely was. And I was not only candidate-centric, but I was also, as far as the person who was hiring the person that I was trying to get them hired, was also at the top of my mind. And I got to know the people so well that I would know exactly what type of person would be excellent in their company.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Really good.

Dr. Terry Neese:

And it just worked really, really well.

Aaron Ackerman:

So I've heard you talk about and read other interviews and articles where you've talked about the importance of being involved in politics as a business owner. When did you learn that and why do you even still today feel like that's so important for business owners to really be involved in their local, all the way up to national level politics?

Dr. Terry Neese:

It was when I felt helpless that my building burned down. So we had the road situation and we had the building burn down, and I didn't know who to call. I didn't know what to do other than to just keep on taking a step at a time and getting the building rebuilt. And I began to think about what's going on at the state level, the county level. And by the way, the county level is very, very important to me. The county officials and the state officials and the federal officials. And a lot of people would say to me, "Well, why are you going to be involved with federal officials? They don't have anything to do with you." I came up with this term: gipogoob.

Aaron Ackerman:

I like it.

Dr. Terry Neese:

G-I-P-O-G... Let me see. Gipogoob. G-I-P-O-G-

Aaron Ackerman:

I'm writing this down.

Dr. Terry Neese:

O-O-B. Gipogoob.

Aaron Ackerman:

I-P.

Dr. Terry Neese:

O-G.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Gipogoob. O-O-B.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. All right. I can't wait to [crosstalk].

Dr. Terry Neese:

Get involved and politics or go out of business.

Aaron Ackerman:

Go out of business. Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

And I began to knock on people's doors, and first the elected officials, knock on their doors. The first person was a former mayor, Ron North. I called Ron, told him that I was very interested in interviewing him and talking to him, interviewing him. Because that's what I did all day long was interview applicants for jobs. And I said, "Can I see you today?" And he said, "I don't have anybody I'm seeing right now, so yes, come on down." And so I went to his office and talked to him and asked him some questions about what did he want to do as mayor? I thought he answered them all right on point. And I said, "I want to help you. What can I do? I can knock doors. I can help you raise money."

Dr. Terry Neese:

At any rate, Ron and I became really good friends. He won the race. I was the chair of his small business committee and basically his business organization, also. I was chair of that. And I learned so much from Ron and his chief of staff who was Mike [McAuliffe]. And then I went on to the Capitol and the House and the Senate, and got to know individuals out there and what they were doing or what they weren't not doing that I thought they ought to be doing. And all the way then to, all of a sudden, I'm working with the president of the United States. I never intended for that to happen. It just happened. And by the way, the gipogoob thing, I have people all around the country that have made buttons out of those and taken them to political conventions.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow. So that's a pretty strong statement. Get involved in politics or go out of business.

Dr. Terry Neese:

You just never know when there's a stop sign down at the corner, or your building burns up, or something that comes along. For example, something that's just happened to me in the last six months. We have had a terrible situation with people getting copper out of our air conditioners and sniffing Freon. And you know how much Freon costs? Every time you put it in, it's about $500 a whack. And I've spent this year with the ice storm and all the other storm issues that we've had and losing these four air conditioners.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I have talked to a lot of elected officials saying, "Hey, we need to clean up ourselves here in Oklahoma City. We need to make this place shine." And we've got issues here that business owners ought to not have to be paying 35 to $40,000 in a four month period of time to have an air conditioner running. So we put up fences and we have to protect ourselves to make sure that we can keep our air conditioners going. And by the way, I have the kind of staff... Not only I have the kind of staff, but my daughter has the kind of staff that has been in that building for the last three weeks with no air conditioners.

Aaron Ackerman:

We've had a few hot days in the last three weeks.

Dr. Terry Neese:

We have had a lot of hot days.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's tough.

Dr. Terry Neese:

So it's been tough. I've talked to a number of political people about it. And I think it's very, very important for all business owners. They need to know who their council person is, city council person is who their county commissioner is, who their house rep is, who their state senator is and who their house district is, and their senators, both of their senators. Go get to know all of them. Hey, they're just people.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. So if I'm on the other side of that, you're advising me as a business owner, what if my answer is, "That sounds great, Terry, but I'm already working 14 hours a day. I'm too busy. That's going to take time." How would you respond to that?

Dr. Terry Neese:

At some time in your life, you are going to need help from the city. Could be a stop sign at the corner that you don't have and there's 40 wrecks there every month. And-

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:18:04]

Dr. Terry Neese:

... every month.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah.

Dr. Terry Neese:

You need to know your city officials. You need to know your state officials. You need to know your federal officials. I know a lot of people think, "Well, how do you get to know the President of the United States?" The President of the United States is just a person.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. That's funny. You start with your mayor, right?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Absolutely.

Aaron Ackerman:

Then before you know it, you're in Washington.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah, and testifying before Congress on issues, tax increases and paperwork and regulations and all of those things that are important to small business owners. As a small business owner, I cannot tell you how many times I've testified before the House and Senate Small Business Committee, because it's important not only to me, but it's important to all the small business owners that have to deal with these things.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. So I read somewhere that you when asked about advice for entrepreneurs, you gave this answer, four things, and you probably remember this. Dream big, have fun, deliver quality, and be passionate about what you're doing. So is that in order, dream big first? Is there an order to that?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I think that there's probably not an order to that. I think the most important thing is are you passionate about what you're doing? If you're passionate about what you're doing, you will be successful. I was passionate about what I was doing and finding jobs for people. By the way, we found about 37 or 34,000 places. I mean, I don't know for sure. It's 34 or 37,000 people have received jobs from us.

Aaron Ackerman:

In Oklahoma?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's amazing. That's a lot of jobs.

Dr. Terry Neese:

It's a lot of jobs, and if you're passionate about what you're doing, you're going to be successful. If you love it, you'll be successful.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. So I love that list. I want to ask you about dream big, because that one, I don't know. I latched on to that one myself. But do you think that a lot of entrepreneurs, business owners, or anybody, I guess, in general in their lives, but do you think that people dream too small?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I do. Dream for the sky. Dream big. Dream big. I decided ... My husband. Well, actually, my husband made me decide to become a pilot, and I was so scared to do that. I had to really dream big to think, "Oh my gosh. I'm going to go get in an airplane and fly?"

Aaron Ackerman:

You'd never done that. You didn't grow up with pilots in your family or ...

Dr. Terry Neese:

No, not at all.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that is a big dream.

Dr. Terry Neese:

My husband had been a pilot in the Navy, and he wanted to go ahead and purchase an airplane and get his license back, because he had let it go away. So he decided, "I want to get my license again." He did, and then he said, "You need to get your license to the airplane." I said, "Oh, I'm not ready for that."

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

So, I mean, I really had to dream big, because you have to go to ground school first.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Then you have to take this test, and you're seated away from everybody else, because you can't look at other people's ...

Aaron Ackerman:

No cheating.

Dr. Terry Neese:

No cheating.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

It's a four-hour test, and I'm dreaming big. I'm dreaming big. I finished the test in about 45 minutes. Aaron, I didn't know what to do. I looked down at all the answers, and I took it up to the instructor and gave it to me. He looked up at me, and he said, "You're done, huh?" I said, "Well, I think so." He said, "I think you better go back and take another look." I went back, took another look at all the questions, dreaming big here, because I was anxious to get in the cockpit. I changed the weight and balance question. I changed my answer, turned it in, and he looked at my answers. He said, "So Terry Neese, are you any kin to Earl Neese?" I said, "Yes, that's my husband." He said, "Ah, I taught him to fly." So he said, "Okay." He said, "You might be all right." That's the only question that I answered wrong, was the one I changed.

Aaron Ackerman:

The one you changed. See? First instincts, right?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, dreaming big, I never thought being on the farm in Cookietown, Oklahoma that I would be flying an airplane, not only in Oklahoma, but we took trips to Alabama and Mississippi.

Aaron Ackerman:

What town are you from?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Cookietown, Oklahoma.

Aaron Ackerman:

Cookietown.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Population five.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. I was going to say, "I've lived here my whole life. I've never heard of Cookietown."

Dr. Terry Neese:

Cotton County.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Go look it up. It's on the map.

Aaron Ackerman:

Population five.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Population five.

Aaron Ackerman:

For real?

Dr. Terry Neese:

For real, for real. I know. Cookietown, Oklahoma. I mean, when you grow up on a farm and your mom and dad have three daughters, I'm the one that was plowing, helping harvest wheat, cleaning out the chicken houses, gathering the eggs with big snakes that were in the boxes.

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, wow.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I didn't like that. But by the way, talk about dreaming big. My grandfather homesteaded two miles west of Cookietown at the end of a dirt road.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

He bought that property April 16th, 1920.

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, wow. 1920.

Dr. Terry Neese:

It was handed off to my dad and an uncle and an aunt. I have now ... Pretty much most of the acreage is in my name.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. So that's been in your family a long time.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Over 100 years.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow. Statehood was seven, so that's only 13, right?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Right.

Aaron Ackerman:

13 years. Wow.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Right.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's awesome. Well, I love it. Dream big. Have fun. Let me ask you about this one, deliver quality. So let me set context. I love that one as well. In certain situations, I kind of go back and forth on this concept from the standpoint of I feel like sometimes in business, we let the pursuit of perfection get in the way of serving customers and clients and doing great things. Sort of a more recent way to think about it is the technology companies. Just take your cell phone, whether it's an Apple or Android. They ship these things out kind of intentionally early. They know they've got bugs in the hardware and the software, but if they were to wait until it was perfect, they'd never produce anything. It would always be in the lab. So how do you think about sort of the two extremes on that, deliver quality? Sometimes you have to understand there's a where good as good enough and you've got to ship it versus trying to get everything just perfect.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I think that it's not feasible to think that everything is going to be perfect. It's just not. You spend a lot of time worrying about whether it's perfect or not. I think you absolutely have to deliver quality.

Aaron Ackerman:

Sure. Yeah.

Dr. Terry Neese:

No doubt about that. I mean, I didn't sell phones. I didn't sell things. However, I did sell some things back in the clothes days, but I think the issue is if you're interviewing someone and you are thinking about hiring them to come into your company, you need to make sure that you're hiring quality.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

How do you know that? You need to spend some time with those people, maybe not in just one interview. It may be two interviews and maybe three interviews.

Aaron Ackerman:

It probably is. It's hard to nail that in 30 minutes or 60 minutes.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah, yeah. Know if they're quality. Are they quality people? Asking them a lot of questions. I think that's really important in an interview situation. Now, quality in terms of a laptop or this bottle of water-

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

... this better be quality water. If it's not quality water, I'm angry.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. We've got problems.

Dr. Terry Neese:

We've got problems. I mean, I think that that's something in our lives that people have kind of forgotten about. It really is all about quality and making sure that what you're doing is a quality subject.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Whether you're interviewing for a job or you're drinking water out of this plastic bottle, is it quality?

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Well, and the way that things get delivered, right? I have this conversation with my kids all the time. We'll go through a drive-through or something, and it depends on where you're going. You have an expectation. It's good food or it's okay, but it's fast and it's cheap. That is kind of set. But when a young person working in the restaurant hands you a drink through the window and it's got Coke or whatever running down the side, I always tell my kids, "Look, guys, you need to have pride in your job. How hard would it be to wipe this down and hand it nice and clean to the customer?" It doesn't really matter if you're pulling weeds or digging ditches or charging somebody $1,000 an hour for legal service. You've got to give it your best. One of the areas I think about quality is what experience are you creating for your customers and your clients through the service and the care and attention you're giving to them?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Let's think about driving up and getting a cup of coffee or something to drink. Your straw is already in the cup, but there's some paper on the top of it. We've been through this COVID thing.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I think, "Okay, where did the rest of the straw go?" I often will say, "I don't want that straw. I want a straw that's got paper on it."

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. [crosstalk].

Dr. Terry Neese:

I'll put my own straw in. I have a tendency to do that now all the time and just say, "Just give me a straw." So I'll make sure that it's okay.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I mean, that's quality.

Aaron Ackerman:

Sure. It's a small thing, but-

Dr. Terry Neese:

It is.

Aaron Ackerman:

... it's a big impact.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Absolutely.

Aaron Ackerman:

It's a little gesture that makes a big impact.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah. Then you think back. Maybe you took the straw, and then you take the paper off. Later on that evening, you think, "Oh, boy. I probably should not have done that. I'm getting a sore throat," those kinds of things.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Well, let's talk about the Institute for Economic Empowerment of Women, IEEW. I didn't do a lot of intro, because I knew we wanted to talk about this. So this is an organization that educates and empowers women, right, to start and run businesses in Afghanistan and Rwanda. Correct?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

Through the Peace Through Business Program, Peace Through Business. It's now 15 years old this year, right?

Dr. Terry Neese:

It is. Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

If I've got my number right, in 15 years, you've had 877 women go through this program.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

80% of the businesses are still in business, active businesses.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

So those numbers kind of speak for themselves, but let's go back 15 years. Tell me, because you've told me this story, and I think it's really interesting, how did it start? How was the idea born 15 years ago or 16 years ago for IEEW?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Actually, in 2006, I wrote a book about the importance of being involved in politics with your county, state, and federal officials.

Aaron Ackerman:

The name of the book wasn't Gippy Goop, was it?

Dr. Terry Neese:

It was not. The name of the book was ... Let me think. Let me think. I've forgotten what the name of the book was. That's too far back.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

So the book was completed in 2006. AT&T was a sponsor of ours for the book.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

We traveled to 14 cities across the United States, training entrepreneurs on how to be involved in their political stratosphere.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. This is men, women any-

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. In late 2006, I had started a nonprofit, and therefore that's why I did the book.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

We gave the books away. We did not charge for the books. In late 2006, I received a phone call from the State Department and the White House asking me if I would travel to Kabul, Afghanistan to work with women there who had had businesses, but had to close them because of the Taliban and had a long discussion with the State Department and the White House about that. They were taking a trip. The ambassador, actually ambassador Paula Dobriansky was taking a trip over, and she wanted me to go with her. I went home and told my husband, and he said, "You're not going to Afghanistan." I said, "Okay."

Dr. Terry Neese:

I went back to the office the next day, and I called the State Department. I said, "When are we leaving?" We left out of Andrews Air Force Base and spent about a week and a half on the ground in Afghanistan. My first thoughts when I got there were, "Oh my gosh. Look at all this rubble." It's early 2007, and I was expecting paved roads and nice buildings around, because they had said, "Well, you'll stay in the embassy, in the US embassy."

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I did stay in the US embassy, but I'll tell you about that in a minute. So I spent the week and a half basically talking with women who had businesses and wanted to continue to get them going, because they had to close them down because of the Taliban.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I had just become a member of the US Afghan Women's Council, and we had a US Afghan Women's Council meeting in Kabul to talk about how we could help women to build their businesses.

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:36:04]

Dr. Terry Neese:

... About how we could help women to build their businesses, those who had businesses. And on the way back to the United States I started kind of piecing together how could we do this? To help educate women who want to scale their businesses. And landed at Andrews Air Force Base, and I had everything pretty much lined out on a piece of paper. I actually, I think it was a napkin that I had that I was writing on. And that's really the truth and a lot of people [crosstalk].

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah the best ideas are always on napkins, right?

Dr. Terry Neese:

On napkins, yeah. And I knew that I needed curriculum, I mean I could not teach them everything that they needed to know. Am I an entrepreneur? Absolutely, but I needed curriculum. I spoke with a number of universities in Oklahoma and asked if they would help, that we would bring a small group of Afghan women over in 2007. And I got no for every answer. It just so happened that I was in Florida at an event and Northwood University was giving out some awards, and I was one of their honorees. And I met the president of Northwood University, Dr. David Fry, told him that I had just been to Afghanistan and I really wanted to take my nonprofit and start working in Afghanistan to help women scale their businesses, and I'm looking for a university with the right curriculum to do that. And in less than two minutes, he said, "I'm in. And by the way, our Dean of Business is from Afghanistan, his name is John Amene-"

Aaron Ackerman:

At Northwood?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). "And he's not been home in 30 years. He will be delighted." Fast-forward 15 years, Northwood University is still our curriculum partner, and they have been amazing. We had nine women come over from Afghanistan the first year in 2007, and they were on campus at Northwood in Midland, Michigan. And six weeks is a long time, so we put a questionnaire together, what did we do right? What did we do wrong? What more do you need in order to scale your business? How can we help you more?

Aaron Ackerman:

This is after the first-

Dr. Terry Neese:

This is after the very first 2007 class, Manesia Waffick was in that class. So there were nine women, business owners. All of them got off the plane with their heads down and would not hardly talk to us. By the time that six weeks was over they were going gangbusters about what they were going to do when they got back home. Manesia Waffick in particular, Manesia has been our leader and our teacher sanctioned by Northwood University for the last 15 years.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow. She's been with you since that first year.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Absolutely.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's amazing.

Dr. Terry Neese:

And they said to us six weeks is too long, it's too long for me to be away from my business, it's too long for me to be away from my family. And I kind of went, duh. And so we started teaching in country. The next year, 2008, Dr. Michael Neil from Oklahoma Christian University called me and said, "Oh my gosh, I see what you're doing for these women in Afghanistan. Can you do the same thing in Rwanda?" By the way, it's not pronounced Rwanda, it's Rwanda. It's Rwanda. And I-

Aaron Ackerman:

I don't think I've ever heard it other than learning that from you.

Dr. Terry Neese:

It's Rwanda.

Aaron Ackerman:

So do you have to say Rwanda here? Like some people-

Dr. Terry Neese:

I have to because people will think, if I say Rwanda they look at me like, what? Where is that? So it's difficult. And when I go to Rwanda I'm saying Rwanda. So Rwanda joined us in 2008 at Oklahoma Christian University. And in 2009 we blended the women together, the Afghans and the Rwandans. And they were-

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, that's cool.

Dr. Terry Neese:

They were so cool together. Loved each other, had a lot of fun together. And we did the program in Northwood at the campus in Cedar Hill, Texas. And we were in Cedar Hill, Texas for about seven or eight years, maybe nine years. And then at AT&T University, their campus took us on because Northwood's Cedar Hills campus closed.

Aaron Ackerman:

So all these years, are they still coming over here for six weeks or did you shorten it?

Dr. Terry Neese:

No, we shorten it to two weeks.

Aaron Ackerman:

Two weeks. Because they said six was too long.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah. The second year we shortened it to four weeks.

Aaron Ackerman:

Four, okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

And the next year we went to two because we started teaching on the ground in both countries. And Shawn [inaudible] from Rwanda is our teacher in Rwanda, or Rwanda, whichever way you want to say it. So we have teachers in both countries and they teach a 10 week course. You have to be in business for a year in order to enter the program, you must make 90% of the time that you're supposed to be in class, you must be at 93% with your grades, and you must write a business plan. And we have five people in those countries that we know their names but it's not our place to make the selection for those people to come. There's 15 people who come here to the United States, five people who judge their business plan, their time in the classroom, and their scores on their tests. And we rely on them, on those five people to determine who are the best of the 15, there's 30 women in the classroom.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. So half of the people in the program will come to the United States?

Dr. Terry Neese:

That's correct.

Aaron Ackerman:

So is 30, do you limit it to 30? Do you have to turn away qualified candidates?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I'm really glad you asked that question, especially for Rwanda. Manesia started, Manesia's a 4'11 powerhouse. Manesia founded the very first ever Afghan Women's Chamber of Commerce and Industry about four years ago. I may be wrong on the four years, it may be three. But she put that together, there's almost 600, a little over 600 women who have joined the chamber. So they have more space now to educate more women because they have a building for the chamber. And in Rwanda I signed a memorandum of understanding with the mayor of Kigali City, that's the capital city in Rwanda. And the mayor and I signed a memorandum of understanding that he would build a women's business center. The SBA has women business centers all around our country, and I felt like it was really important for Rwanda in particular to have a women's business center, because they were teaching class at city hall, in a conference room with 30 women.

Aaron Ackerman:

Crammed in with, yeah.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Well the women's center is open, it's gorgeous. And this year was the first year that they were able to teach in the women's business center. COVID was an issue. COVID was an issue in Afghanistan, not only this year but last year. Last year none of the women came, which was very sad.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. First time in 15 years.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

So after a decade and a half in both of these areas, I assume there's kind of a, I mean as evidenced by the Women's Chamber of Commerce in Afghanistan, but there's a network that's been building up, a local network over the last 15 years. So are you seeing that sort of translate into more sophisticated business plans for your candidates? Like there's more support there, there's women that have been through it and are sort of a support for finding women that need to go through it, helping them get prepared. Is that something that's been sort of happening over time?

Dr. Terry Neese:

You are right on point. About, I'm going to say six years ago, Manesia was in the classroom, we were at Cedar Hill Campus. And she raised her hand and she said, "Dr. Terry, why don't we have an alumni association? The campus here has an alumni association, why don't we have one?" And I said, "Well of course you should have one. So why don't you start yours? And we'll get the other ones started in Rwanda." So they do have an alumni association now, and everyone who goes through the program and graduates is a part of the alumni association. And it's really valuable for them to get together as an alumni association and discuss the pros and cons of what's going on with their business. What are they having trouble with and those kinds of things. Manesia certainly helps the Afghan women with those kinds of issues and questions, and Chantal does the same thing in Rwanda. So alumni association, they're all coming together and making sure that their company flies and does better than it's ever done.

Aaron Ackerman:

So both of these countries were sort of brought to you, are there, I mean obviously there's other places in the world that would benefit from IEEW landing there. Are there other things on the horizon that you think about?

Dr. Terry Neese:

It's all about the money to do all this. However, I'm talking to people in Morocco. I've actually been talking to the former ambassador of Morocco. I think Morocco could definitely use our information, and our training, and our curriculum, and the mentorship that we have. We have women here in the United States, and certainly in Oklahoma, that mentor the women while they're in the classroom. And then when they come to the United States they're here for a week for more education. And on the second week they go live with their mentor, because their mentor should own almost exactly the same type of business that they own back home. And the American women say I learn more from them than they could ever learn from me. So it's a big deal. In addition to Morocco, we've had some conversations just recently with Canada who says they really, really need someone who can come in and work with women entrepreneurs in Canada.

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh really?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay, it's all about the money. So how do you get funding? Is it mostly through grants, individuals, corporate sponsors, all of the above?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I've never taken any government money. Not that I wouldn't, I would. I'm going to say this, the beltway bandits get the money. We're not the beltway bandits. We have been completely funded proudly, I proudly say that we have been completely funded by corporations, and women business owners, and leaders throughout the country that have supported us. AT&T, Bank of America, Office Depot, UPS. It's a Godsend for us.

Aaron Ackerman:

And people that volunteer their time and mentors. So what have you learned through this exposure to these women from other countries and the things that they're facing in their businesses? What's maybe the biggest impact or takeaway for you that really informs your view of doing business in the US or in Oklahoma? What has changed for you as a business person because of what you've seen through your work with IEEW?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I think I'm more sympathetic to staff, to people that I've worked with, other business owners, and the problems that they're having. Being a business owner myself and all the things that happened to me, Interstate 44 being built and not having any access into my building, building burning down, all those things. Watching these women struggle for money and to make sure that their business does grow. And I feel for them, I definitely relate to them.

Dr. Terry Neese:

A lot of these people, a lot of the women are out, not in Kabul. And by the way, I want to make this really clear because this is really a big deal. Manesia came to me about four years ago and said, "I want to go teach out in the provinces. They need to know how to start and grow businesses." And I said, "Manesia, you can't do that. I don't want you to do that, it's too dangerous. You can't do it." Again, " Dr. Terry, I want to go to Heart, I want to go to Bamiyan, I want to go to Kandahar, I want to go to Jalalabad." And I finally said, "Okay, let's try it one year and see what happens." And it's been a Godsend, we have some people out in these provinces that have just developed major businesses.

Aaron Ackerman:

So the program is called Peace Through Business, so talk about that. It's a good segue here because she's going to places that are sort of the epicenter of wars, of war time activity, same thing in Rwanda or Rwanda. It's well documented here, I mean we've got Hollywood movies about the genocide and everything. So what is it about economic strength that is so important to these countries as far as the promotion of peace?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Economic empowerment is all about bringing peace to the country. If you have women out there that are teaching other women how to start and grow businesses then you've really got a train going, and that happens a lot. Peace for Business is really all about creating peace, creating strength, and economic stability. Anytime you have groups of women who are in their own business you've got economic stability. Men or women, entrepreneurship is the most important thing in my opinion, because I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm going to sing this song for the rest of my life. It's all about economic stability-

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:54:04]

Dr. Terry Neese:

... into my life. It's all about economic stability. And we are building that every single solitary day.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yep. So the program is focused on women. What have you seen just from kind of a cultural standpoint? Are these women who are trying to start and run businesses and go through your program and come to the US? Do they have a lot of support from their families? Is there opposition to what they're trying to do? What is that like for them?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I would say a large majority of them do have help from their family, and they feel really good that their daughter or their wife is putting together a business and making money. There are a few that don't want them to be out there doing that. But I think it's much, much less today than it was when we started 15 years ago. We have changed the trajectory of Afghanistan and Rwanda, and what they've been doing in terms of business, economic stability.

Aaron Ackerman:

It's not a crazy idea anymore. There's a proof of concept it's been done successfully.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yes. And without any major difficulties. I mean, yes, are there bombs going off in Afghanistan? Absolutely. Are they killing people in Afghanistan? Yes, absolutely. Manizha would tell you, "It's okay. So there's a bomb going off over there. I'm going to go over there anyway and I'm going to go teach this woman to do this."

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow.

Dr. Terry Neese:

She's powerful. Chantal as a same. She's got the same type of personality. We're going to go do this. Chantal lost every one of her family members in the genocide. And that is a sad, sad story. She's got a really sad, all of them, have very sad stories.

Aaron Ackerman:

Tragic.

Dr. Terry Neese:

It's very tragic. But they have pulled themselves out of the mire and they have created great economic stability and in both of these countries. I'm very proud of what these women have done in a 15 year period of time.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's amazing. Well, congratulations on 15 years of On The Impact and I know you are one to deflect glory and talk about all the people that have been part of it. But it's a big accomplishment. And so what do you need? If people want to know more about the organization, what they might do, if they're interested, where can they find you? What would you tell people?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I would say go to our website. IEEW.org. we've got just about everything on there. Look it over. If you'd like to donate to the cause and help us train more women business owners in these countries or even add Morocco or add Canada, we're ready to do that. And I would tell people, I mean, I'm fine to give out my, my cell phone number (405) 850-4020. That's an easy one. And know that your dollars are going to women business owners that are breaking the ceiling in both Afghanistan and Rwanda. And maybe, if we have enough money, we go to Morocco or we go to Canada. Who knows? Nigeria, Uganda, Kenya.

Aaron Ackerman:

There's probably no shortage of places that need this, huh?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Exactly. By the way, my daughter and my two granddaughters traveled with me to Rwanda a few years ago.

Aaron Ackerman:

Girls trip.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yep. And it was kind of late one night, my daughter knocked on my door, the hotel, and she came in and she said, "Mom, I just have to tell you that, I mean, everybody in this country knows you and they know what you're doing to help their country. I'm so proud of you. I just have no idea." She said, "I just didn't know." Because she'd never been there before. And so that was a high point for me. I was like, "Huh, wow." Not everybody knows me, but there's a lot that do and I love all of them. They're all obviously have their arms wrapped around their family and making sure that their families are safe and feeding their families with what we're doing to help them.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow. That's a cool moment. Beautiful thing from your daughter, you'll remember that forever.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I will.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well. Man, thank you so much. What an interesting conversation about just entrepreneurship and certainly what you're doing with IEEW. And I hope somebody will reach out to you that maybe has a passion around this and wants to help. That would be really cool.

Dr. Terry Neese:

There are a lot of people out there that have a lot of money and they don't know what to do with it.

Aaron Ackerman:

We can help them with that.

Dr. Terry Neese:

We can have them with that. I mean, we've got a-

Aaron Ackerman:

And some of that really has an impact.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah, we've got a solid, solid non-profit organization here. And guess what? We have three staffers including me and we do all of this work.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, all the money is going to...

Dr. Terry Neese:

So we're not throwing money away.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. Yeah, that's awesome. And I love the ability to make an impact. One thing I'll never forget, it was a great lesson for me is when I was younger, early in my career, I had a boss or my boss's boss actually, he was the owner of the company, very wealthy, multi-generational wealth in their family. And they were giving money to all these different causes but it was spread so thin over the years, and he had his wife kind of had this epiphany like, " We're giving tons of money away, but we're not having any real impact."

Dr. Terry Neese:

I've heard that.

Aaron Ackerman:

Because it's 10,000 here, 10,000 there, 20,000 here, 20,000 there. And he said, "Let's put all of our contribution in one area and really try to make an impact." And they did, and they chose something that was really, really cool, that helped at-risk kids. And they weren't spreading their charitable giving so thin anymore, they were really having a deep impact in one area. And the downside of that is all the other things that they had been giving to were very worthy causes, but it was just kind of like scattering seed, and they went for deep impact. And I thought that was maybe not everybody's strategy, but I thought for them, it made a lot of sense, but I love finding things that you can donate your time to donate your money to that have like real lasting impact, whatever that is. And obviously this is having that kind of impact after 15 years.

Dr. Terry Neese:

And really having the ability to learn about other countries and what they are doing or not doing or should be doing.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay. Well, we're just about out of time. Thanks again, Terry. I really appreciate your transparency and just sharing some of your journey in business and your heart for women in these war torn countries. But as you know, we've got a few questions we ask all of our guests just kind of fun. So if you're ready, I'll hit you with those now.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Okay.

Aaron Ackerman:

So one we maybe already touched on, I don't know, what's the first way you ever made money?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I joined a cosmetic company by the name of Fashion 220. And the only way they sold their cosmetics was door to door. Imagine this today, with COVID and everything. I was living in Norman, I was in college, I was trying to make enough money to get through college. And I did really well. I knocked doors everywhere I went and I sold makeup to many, many, many people in Norman, Oklahoma.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's funny.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Kind of like a Mary Kay.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, I get it.

Dr. Terry Neese:

But it's Fashion 220, I think folded in-

Aaron Ackerman:

You probably have your little box and you show up and knock the door.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Absolutely.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, it's pretty obvious. Just kind of listening to you talk about your life or career. You're not afraid of a little grind and hustle out.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Nope, not afraid to go knock those doors.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, you're doing a lot right now, so it's kind of hard to pin this question down, but what would you be doing if you had a different career, if you weren't in the staffing business, not working with IEEW, had to go do something completely different, what would that be?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I'd be a basketball coach.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Loved basketball. I was all-district forward my junior year and the school board voted to not allow women to play basketball anymore.

Aaron Ackerman:

In your high school?

Dr. Terry Neese:

My junior high school.

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow.

Dr. Terry Neese:

I was a junior.

Aaron Ackerman:

In Oklahoma.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). No, it was in Burkburnett, Texas.

Aaron Ackerman:

Texas, okay.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Because my mom and dad had divorced, mother moved about 10 miles away from my dad. And it was Burkburnett, Texas. And they voted to not allow women to play basketball. I got into another little group of people that were women that were playing farmer balls, so to speak and loved that for my junior year and senior year, the end of my junior year and senior year, and basketball coach.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, so have you coached kids, grandkids, anything over the years?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Not really.

Aaron Ackerman:

No?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I mean, I coach women businesses owners all the time.

Aaron Ackerman:

You're a coach, absolutely. You coach candidates to get jobs and I could absolutely see that. What would you like to go back and tell your 20 year old self?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Stay in college. Stay and college. I didn't do that.

Aaron Ackerman:

Makes the path a little easier?

Dr. Terry Neese:

I think it does. I'm proud that I'm been able to do what I've done with only one year of college. And by the way, I'm going to show my age here. There really only two things that a woman could major in and that was secretarial science or nurse. I chose secretarial science.

Aaron Ackerman:

So that was the degree program, I didn't even know that.

Dr. Terry Neese:

It was a two year program.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, so in my head, I was guessing what you were going to say and I was going to think about nursing or teaching. But secretarial science. Yeah. That's good. Well, and staying in school is... It's funny, you look at some of these startups that have become unicorns and turned into billion dollar public companies and sometimes the founders, they drop out of school once they get this great business idea, which I get, it's like, if you've got Facebook, just go do that.

Aaron Ackerman:

But I'm like you, there's such value in finishing that. And I kind of root for like some of these athletes, you see basketball players go back and finish their school. I love Shaquille O'Neal, he's got a Master's now and a PhD that he's done online or whatever. Like Shaq doesn't need a PhD, but he just wants to learn and have, have some of these things that he wanted to accomplish probably when he was a kid and he's going to finish it. It's really cool. So what would be the name of your book?

Dr. Terry Neese:

From Cookie Town to Victory.

Aaron Ackerman:

Ah, love that. Cookie Town. I learned all kinds of things today, Terry.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Cookie Town, America.

Aaron Ackerman:

Cookie town to Victory. That's excellent. Okay. Last one. What's the best advice that you've ever received?

Dr. Terry Neese:

Work hard, play hard and be happy.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's great. That's work hard, play hard, be happy. Well said. Well, thank you again so much Terry. Like I said, I've learned a lot, I've enjoyed this conversation and I think other people will enjoy listening to it as well. We'll have in our show notes, the website, the phone number, the things that you gave out there so people can get in contact with you, learn more about IEEW and peace through business. But just really appreciate you just opening up being so transparent and just sharing some of your wisdom.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Actually, it's really nice to talk to somebody that's not grilling me about anything political at the moment.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, I am a political junkie so maybe we'll have to have a volume two someday.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Yeah, okay.

Aaron Ackerman:

We can talk politics because I'm sure you've got a lot of stories from that side of it as well.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Oh yeah, I do. Definitely.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Well, we'll have to do that. So anyway, thank you so much.

Dr. Terry Neese:

You're welcome.

Aaron Ackerman:

It was really fun.

Dr. Terry Neese:

Good to be here.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah.