61. Tara Lynn Thompson – How Powerful, Well-Placed Words Spur Action

Tara Lynn Thompson:

You need to find a way to make both sides work, which means give your creatives three days out of the week that you don't have meetings, and then just lay them out on two days. Like, just keep them busy all day long if you have to.

Robert Wagner:

From HoganTaylor CPAs and advisors, I'm Robert Wagner, and this is How That Happened, a business and innovation success podcast. Each episode of the show, we sit down with the business and community leaders behind thriving organizations to learn how business and innovation success actually happens. Our guest today is Tara Lynn Thompson. Tara is first and foremost a writer. She has written and published a three-volume romantic action adventure series called the Another series. But she also does a wide variety of work around content strategy and creation, marketing strategies, and she speaks and teaches on writing for various audiences. Tara says that she has been confounding people with her descriptive writing since she was 19 year old beat reporter, and states that she gets a sharp devious zing when she keeps people guessing. And then finally, I would say that in what has to be the most intimidating research I've done in preparing for a podcast, Tara says she's developed a canny if not times creepy way of reading people or observing them. So Tara, it's with some trepidation that I welcome you to the podcast.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

A little fear. A little fear, thank you.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Yeah. So, you're going to be creepily reviewing me and reading me as we go along here.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

That's true. I'm doing it already right now.

Robert Wagner:

Okay, good. All right. Well, don't hurt yourself. All right. So, Tara, it is great to have you on the podcast. As I said earlier when we were just talking before we started recording that you're a unique guest for us, someone who makes a living doing writing. And so I wanted to hear from you and hear your insights. So, before we get too far along, just give us a thumbnail of what you do.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, I am a writer of many hats, which I think most writers usually are these days. We have to have some flexibility, because there's communication in so many different forms now. So, you need to be able to be flexible and adaptable and that kind of thing. So what I do mostly is a lot of advertising marketing writing, ghostwriting, and that can be anything from personal books, professional books. It can be a website. It could be a billboard. One day it might be a radio commercial. So it's a broad range there as far as my particular writing outside of my novel writing. And then course I do teaching and speaking and coaching. And so yeah, I like it, though. I like all the irons in the fire at once. When I'm cooking, I have all four-

Robert Wagner:

All four burners going.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

... burners, yeah, all of them going. I like it because I like the creativity. I like the challenge of it, and it also keeps me sharp. Yeah, so I enjoy that. A lot of times, people want to specialize in something, and it's like I'd rather specialize in people than an actual writing process. So that's what I do. So, it really depends on my client and what they need, what I provide.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Say more about that, about specializing in people and not necessarily writing, I guess.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, I think at a time, we have a tendency to focus on tools. We kind of got bogged down when social media became so instrumental into businesses. We got bogged down in our tools, right? So people are trying to specialize in Facebook and they're specializing Instagram. They're specializing in LinkedIn. You know, they're really getting involved in those tools. And what I saw a lot, especially in my work with advertising agencies and things was sometimes they got a little overly focused. Like this was sort of the platform. We're going to take this client and we're going to set them up and really push them here and push them there, and there wasn't as much time spent on, well, wait a second. Let's think about the actual client. Who are they? What are they trying to do? Who are they trying to reach? Who do they want to talk to? How do they want to talk to them? What's the best way to go about doing that? And the focus just became so much on tools.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Now, I think we're moving away from that now. I think that's been a learned the hard way kind of thing in business. I just never have agreed with that because I think everybody is unique and an individual, and their businesses are unique. And when you speak, you have a unique voice, just like you do when you communicate, just like you do when you have a conversation with somebody. You are a unique person. Well, a business also has a voice. It also has a tone. It has a personality. Sometimes the personality might be dull. You know? I mean, I'm not saying that every ... Every business is flamboyant, but it does have a tone and a personality. And I the real ... I don't want to say trick. The real insight is if you can go in and learn that. And if the workers, if the founder, if the CEO, if they're not really sure about it, that's a lot of times when I come in, they don't know what their voice is. You know? They think, "Well, we want this," but what they really do is they're finding a competitor that they like and they are impressed with and they admire, and they just want to mimic them.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And so a lot of times my job is to come in and say, "Okay, show me what you like and what you don't. That's good. It's a good start." That's where a lot of them want to stop. We want to go further than that then. We want to go, okay I know what you like. I know what you don't. It's a good beginning. Now, let's go a little deeper and find out really who you are. What makes you unique? How can your voice stand out when we are completely surrounded and just inundated all day long with this company and this service and this person and this brand vying for our attention? How do we stand out? And a lot of that so much, though, is the tone and the voice. And that's one of those things that gets overlooked until the end, until people are struggling. And then they're like, "What is going on? Why are we not reaching people? We're doing everything our competitor' doing. Why aren't we doing better than them?" Well, why would you be doing better if you're doing the exact same thing?

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Right?

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So you're not standing out. So anyway, that's my long-winded answer of I prefer to go in and get to know them and who the company is and who they are first, and then we talk about how to get that out there. You know, what does that look like?

Robert Wagner:

Very good. Well, it's interesting that the basis of our podcast is that everyone has a story, and everyone does have a unique tale to tell. We also talk to our clients about how to show up different in the marketplace, so I resonate with those thoughts.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So, we're getting each other, right?

Robert Wagner:

Yeah, right, exactly.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

We're right. Okay.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So, Tara Lynn, just thinking about just the state of writing, so if I ask you to give like a state of the union address about the state of writing, the quality of writing, what would you say? Where are we in 2022?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, let's see. Four score and about a zillion texts ago ... We really have evolved, I would say. Writing is always in flux. Okay? It's a growing, living, breathing organism. It really is because we're constantly adding to our lexicon, our dialect, we've got new words that we're creating, we're using all the time, new phrases, new things, new venues, new ways to communicate, all that stuff. So we're in a constant growth and flex mode. I would say right now it's more of a ... What I see is maybe more of a zoning in or more focusing now. Before, we kind of just said throw paint on the walls, every wall. Throw it on the ceiling, throw it on the floor, just get it out there. And so that was kind of the broad brush stroke. Right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And now we're coming back into from a writing standpoint of, okay, we need to focus. Writing is extremely time-consuming. If you're talking from a business or even especially an individual, it's extremely time-consuming. And that's even if you don't do it well. To do it well, it's going to take an immense amount of focus. And so right now, I would say I really see a shift with companies and even spokespeople for companies starting to try to find their own individual voice or a way to bring in and quiet some of all the noise, all the extra activity. You can't post on Facebook all the time and Instagram and Twitter and LinkedIn and do TikTok videos and be all this social stuff, but then also have the time to really comprise thoroughly thought-out emails that actually get responses, which is a really hard time. Which is a major I would say challenge that I deal with a lot, with people always trying to get people. "Why can't I get them to respond to my email?" It's like, "Well, let's look at what you're saying first and figure it out."

Robert Wagner:

Right. Right.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

But I really feel that now it's really from a writing standpoint, more and more people are realizing, "Okay, I thought I could just put words out there and people would respond." And now we're finding out, no, it really matters what you put out there and how you put them out there, and where you put it. And so I really think we're going to get into a lot more refinement. I actually think you might start to notice things start to quiet down. And I think that's the shift now is, okay, we're not going to be everywhere. We're not going to be all things to all people. We're going to figure out exactly what it is we want to say and where we want to say it, and we're just going to. We're going to hone in there. And that's where I think we're moving. It's going to take a while, because that scares people, you know? So it's going to take a while, but I think that's the shift.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. There's a feeling that if you're not everywhere, you're sort of not anywhere.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Losing out somehow, right.

Robert Wagner:

Right, or you're losing out, yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

Well, that's a great segue into a question I had. So, this is a podcast about business and about innovation success. And to be in business is to ask people to take action to do something, right? To buy what you're selling. So there's a quote in your bio that really caught my attention, and it says that as a writer, you know that powerful, well-placed words spur action.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Robert Wagner:

How so?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, it's actually on a almost instinctual basis, to be honest. Here's the thing I think that we forget in our business communication. This is one of the things I tell my writing students, I tell when I coach writing for business individuals. And when I say students, these are adult students I'm talking about. Is that all writing is a communication. It's a conversation. All of it is. We we're not thinking of it that way, but it is a conversation. And so oftentimes, we remove that sort of personal interaction that we think is required. If you're having a conversation with somebody, you're trying to be interesting. Right? You're trying to understand them. You're trying to respond to what they're saying. In our business writing, often we're not doing that. We're only thinking about, well, what do I want to say? How do I want to say it, and when do I have the time to do it? And that kind of things. And then we're just putting it out there, and that's not going to respond or get any reaction because we're not actually thinking about our audience at all.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So, when you're writing, you have to be thinking about this is a conversation. Am I that rude person in the party that's standing there just talking about myself that nobody wants to talk to you, that eventually everybody leaves? Or am I that person that's engaging someone? I'm asking questions. I'm drawing them out. And in that, then they respond to me. They can't help themselves. They're drawn to it. There's that magnetism there of, oh, I like this person. What do I like about them? They're asking me questions that, oh, I respond and hey, you want to do this? Yeah, yeah. Let's do this. Yeah, absolutely. And you get them involved. It's really the difference between ... I think a lot of times we think, well, sure, you can do that in a conversation. You can't do that in your business writing. Oh, yes, you can. Yeah, you can. It's just going to take you probably doing something that's different than your competitor. You're going to stand out a little bit. And the truth is, most of the time, businesses and brands have a very ... They want to be different, they say. They just desperately want to be different. But when it comes to actually pulling the trigger and being different, it's like, oh, I don't know.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Seems risky.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Nobody else is doing that. Right. That's why we call it different. Yes. Try it. See what happens.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Very good. That's really good stuff. So, what do you do with folks who they're in business, but they're not great writers.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, you hire me.

Robert Wagner:

There you go.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

That's what I do. I put you on my payroll. No, what do I do? Well, I think it really starts with first off, what is it they're wanting to say? Okay. They may not necessarily need a whole lot of help. Maybe most of their stuff is very technical. You know, the people they're talking to are very technical. You know, I deal with engineers, for instance. I deal with a fair amount of engineers, actually. And I love them, actually. I don't have any problems with it whatsoever. They crack me up. But you know a lot of times, sometimes their audiences do not think like them, and they're trying to reach people that are different, and that's hard for them. Other times, they're just talking to other guys or women or whatever who are just like them. They want the technical stuff. They want the bulleted stuff. It's like, okay, all you need is a little help with your organization and then you're good to go. This other person, that's a different story.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So if you're really struggling to reach your audience, we need to figure out what is it you're wanting to say, and then we've got to find your voice. And believe it or not, everybody has one. They have a written voice. They just don't think about it. And as a matter of fact, it's sometimes been those guys or girls who have the hardest time really telling you what they want. They just can't seem to figure out how to get it out. And we sit down and it comes back to having a conversation. Honestly, I sit down and we look each other in the face, and we start to have a conversation. And eventually, they start to realize and find ... They talk it out. They start to realize and find what they're really passionate about. What is that? Because sometimes you just don't even know yourself. You're really passionate about this and that and this over here, but there's a common thread there. There's a kernel in there that's the root, right? We want to find what that root is. And we get to that and then suddenly things start to click. And they're like, "Okay, okay. So now I understand why I'm kind of all over the place. It's because of this little kernel here that's spurring me on." And then we start focusing on that, how to get that out.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

It doesn't mean that they suddenly have to become James Patterson or something. But then, they begin to know how to communicate that. It's like, okay, you've got all these offshoots, this leaf over here and a blossom over here and this branch over here, and we're going to go right back to the roots. And when you understand your root, then you're going to know how to communicate that better. So there's a lot ... Believe it or not, yes, we get in the technical stuff. Of course, you know? Yes. We need to talk about breaking up your sentence structure and maybe use shorter, simpler sentences, all that good stuff, those little techniques. But you have to understand first what it is you're trying to say before you start ... Again, get to the tools of how to break that up and how to say that. So, it's a lot of talking. It's a lot of talking.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah, and exploring, right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Robert Wagner:

Do you advise people to write as preparation? And I guess where I'm going is this is a personal experience. Many, many years ago I read a book by Peggy Newton, who was I guess a presidential speech writer.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Phenomenal writer too.

Robert Wagner:

She just said, "Look, every speech should be written first." And she said, "I know everyone's watched Ronald Reagan clips. You know, speaking from note cards. But he was very unique." And I've just discovered I'm better in writing than I am certainly extemporaneously, right? So every time I'm going to not just speak, but even just to have a meeting, I will often write out what I want to say. And not to memorize it. That would be gross, right? But to just have-

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Impressive, though.

Robert Wagner:

... those thoughts in my head. So do you advise business people to write first if they'll take the time to do so, to get their thoughts together?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

It does depend on the person. Some don't think well; they speak well. And so I actually have clients for instance who ... Some, I may email because they want me to email questions. So if we're going to be working on a project, I need information from them, they're like, "Okay, would you write all everything you need down for me, every question down?" And then they want to write it out and answer it. They want me to respond that way because that's the way that just helps them to think. Others, if I could send them questions all day long, I can remind them to fill out those questions. And it's not that they don't want to. And it's not even that they're not taking the time. They're sitting there and they're just blocked. I can get them on the phone and have them start to talk. And literally, I will just sit there and type it out and then I'll send it to them and say, "This is what you told me. Is this what you meant?" And they're like, "Oh my word, yes." They don't even realize. They don't even see it, you know? Because that's just the way they communicate, right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So, I would say it really depends on the ... obviously depends on the person. If you're sitting down and you're really struggling, like if you're saying, yeah, speaking extemporaneously is just something that isn't as comfortable for you, then I would definitely say yes. Spend the time, sit down, write out just questions or bullet points. Sometimes the bullet points can be two words or a word that just brings a thought to mind. I'm that. I'm a bullet person. That's easier for me or just extemporaneous, to be honest. If I start to write out long sentences down and long paragraphs, I get stuck because I'm so focused on what I wrote I can't just speak. Right? So yeah, it really depends on how you process your information. And if you're sitting down and you're struggling with writing it out, then you're needing to talk it out. That's how you need to do. And if you don't have somebody to listen, record yourself. Pick up your phone on the note and just record yourself or speak to somebody and ask them to write some notes or something like that, so that you can process that way. And that way, it'll come easier for you if you work with yourself, if that makes sense.

Robert Wagner:

Sure.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Work with your brain, not against it, basically.

Robert Wagner:

Sure, okay. Very good. All right. So, let's turn to you a little bit. How have you turned what you do into a business for yourself?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

You know, I think that's a question I ask myself every day. How do I make this into a business? No. You know, it does come back down to the individual. I'll give a little bit, just a touch on ... I started working in the newspaper business when I was 19 years old. The thing about 19 year olds is we think we know stuff, and we don't know anything. And so when I first started, I didn't really know. I loved to write. That's what drew me to do it, anyway. I loved to write, but I really didn't know what that meant to write to an audience, because I really had never done that before. I didn't know what it meant to sit down and really listen. And that's the big thing was listening. I had to learn that very quickly. You know, as a kid really, very much a kid, not understanding the world. I'm sitting down with adults that have gone through extreme circumstances at times. You know, you're talking about middle military veterans. You're talking about business people who have been doing something for 30, 40 years are sharing their stories with me. You know, somebody who's about to go into surgery and they're having half their brain deflated and they're talking to me about it. Right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So, I'm sitting there and I just feel this weight of this is my responsibility to tell their story, and I don't know what I'm doing. You know? I don't know what ... So I've got to listen. And it was through that that I began to recognize, individualism is huge for me. That's just huge. I don't see people as groups, ever. I like people. I like individuals. I feel like because I've just sat down and listened to so many, it's just not possible really to judge or group people into these little sections. It's really not possible. We'll get some things right. Every time we do it, we're going to get some things right, but most of it wrong. I'd rather just be right, so I just deal with people on an individual basis. And it was through that, through learning that, just appreciating that everybody has something to say, everybody has something to give. Everybody has some wisdom, whether it's they learn the hard way or the right way, either way.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And that individualism that then as I began to get into the business side, when I moved away from newspaper and went into magazine and then eventually advertising and marketing, that's just who I am now. I can't help myself. You know? So when they sit down and they begin to talk about who they are and what they are and what they do, I'm listening for that, for who they ... What is that individual spark? What is that thing that make them so unique? And so it's just kind of sprouted from that, you know? So I have a tendency to, when I sit and listen, I have this great passion. I want to help them. I want to get that out there for them. I want ... Yes, go ahead and burden me with your story. I want to get it out there for you. You know, maybe not as a newspaper reporter anymore, but through your own content or whatnot.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And so it's kind of gone from there. And so then eventually, you get certain groups that kind of know you and kind of trust you. And it just goes from there and you just evolve. And what I do continually grows too, again. So even what I can offer, I feel like I'm always learning. Like, oh, okay. I should have picked up on that. Now I know better because I, again, learned from someone else who was an individual, who was a business, who had something unique about them than I had never seen before. And I had to craft what it is I do to service them individually.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Have you always sort of cobbled together a living, or have you ever been-

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Kind of looks that way, doesn't it?

Robert Wagner:

Well, I'm just ... So many of us, that steady paycheck is just so important to us. Right? But creative people, a lot of them just cobble it together, right? At the end of the year, in tax world, they get 1099s from 15 different people. Right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Ugh, yes, that's my world.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Yeah.

Robert Wagner:

I mean, are you just comfortable with that at this point? That business will be there, I will get to eat this month. Right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

I do intermittent fasting from time to time. Yeah. I mean, most of the time ... You know, I really got into it late. I was very much a paycheck person. Obviously I was in newspaper magazine work and then I got laid off, but the problem was, I was a far enough along ... I had a far enough experience that I was too specialized to ... I was overqualified, basically. Every time I would talk to people, they were like, "Oh gosh, I'd love to hire you, but you're overqualified for the position. But we'd love to contract with you, though. Would you contract with this? Because we have all this stuff and we'd love to work with you." And it's like, okay. So I started doing that just to survive, and I loved it. It just suited me so much better. So yes, generally speaking, that's much more my comfort zone. It's kind of funny because I always tell people, "Look, if you hire me, you'll hate me because I don't operate within rules that you like. You're not going to like that. You're not going to enjoy me as an employee. If you contract with me, you will love me forever. So just contract with me." You know?

Robert Wagner:

Okay, so I got to ask, what corporate rule would you break? What's an example of that?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Let's see, corporate rules. Well, creatives, we work odd hours, odd times. So I might want to be up at two to four in the morning because that's when inspiration struck, but I'm just not going to be wide-eyed and bushy-tailed at your 8:00 AM meeting. You know? That's just not going to happen. And a lot of it really is that corporate culture is just not ... It's unsustainable, I think, for creative consistent ... Consistent creativity, I should say. We schedule everything per hour. Creatives can't operate that way. I mean, that's just a complete interruption of our day. We have to have at least, if not more than, but at the minimum, four hour blocks really to sit and concentrate and work. And so I'm that person who's always canceling meetings. They're always trying to get me, "Well, we have this lunch and learn you need to be a part of," and, "Hey, we're having somebody's birthday over here," and it's like, "I have to work. I must work." So yeah, I would say a lot of that is just that that structure is not really conducive to creativity. And so if I can stay out of the structure, then I can be far more creative.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Okay, now [crosstalk 00:25:52]-

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And productive.

Robert Wagner:

I got to follow this focus thing a little bit-

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Sure.

Robert Wagner:

... because businesses are struggling with this a lot. There's so many interruptions. There's always been a lot of meetings, but now we have all these interruptions, the dings and the whatevers.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Constant, yeah.

Robert Wagner:

I mean, I don't really think creative people are that different in the need for focus. I mean, we could all use four hours of good, hard focus time.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

So I'm not even sure what try ... a question on this. Like, why is the corporate world not seeing this for the rest of us, I guess, and doing something I about it?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, I think that there's a fair amount of ... There is a love of meeting, really. In business, there is a love of meeting and that structure. I don't know if it's just because that's the way a lot of them who are ... You know, they're kind of heading up ... They're the ones that are in charge, right? And this is the way their brain works. They schedule themselves from 1:00 to 1:30, from 1:30 to 2:00, from 2:30 to 3:00. And that makes sense, and it's neat and it's orderly, and it makes sense for their brain. And that's understandable. And so for them to break apart from that, to come out of that ... I've dealt with this actually when I've worked with even advertising agencies. The creative team is struggling because they're like begging to be left alone so they can work, and the other side, whether it's account service or it's any other side of the business, basically are saying, "Well, we need to have a meeting. Why can't we have a meeting?"

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And so a lot of it is really, saying, okay, you need to find a way to make both sides work, which means give your creatives three days out of the week that you don't have meetings, and then just lay them out on two days. Like, just keep them busy all day long if you have to. Or set it up morning and afternoon or something like that. You know? Set a structure so that you can have that time of saying, "Okay, mornings are going to be crazy busy, but after our lunch break, then the rest of it is calm. It's quiet. We shut everything down. We don't bother each other. It's focus time," kind of thing. So, I don't know. I think some companies are understanding that and coming to that realization, especially with so many people working from home now. That's a little bit more conducive. Although, I actually have companies still that want to jump online. They want everybody to jump on Zoom and they still want to play little games because they think that somehow causes everybody to connect, because we're playing a game online together. And of course everybody is sitting there thinking, "Why am I doing this? We're not connecting. I have things to do, but we're all smiling on Zoom and playing the game." You know? So, yeah. I just think it's one of those things. Be different. Try something different. Give them some time.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Well, I just think it's ... We should just take note. I mean, a lot of us, maybe most of us, are working in the knowledge economy. Now, we're not creating things from zero, which is what a creative person really does. So there's a difference there, but the need for focus is really, really strong. Where did you get the love of words? Where'd that come from?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

My first one, I think, whatever it was. I don't honestly know. People have asked me, "When did you start writing?" And I said, "Well, I don't know. Whatever age it was someone handed me a pencil or a crayon." It's just been there. And to me, it's an art. It's beautiful. You put certain words together, and I could just sit and stare at them all day like a painting.

Robert Wagner:

So you could go back to journals of your childhood and there's writing there?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, bad writing of course. Terrible, awful stuff, but yeah, absolutely.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. So, let's go back to that newspaper job. Is it the Henryetta Daily Free-Lance, right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Yeah. That's where I started.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So, that newspaper still exists.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

It does.

Robert Wagner:

It's online. So, how'd you get that job and what ... You said a little bit of what you learned already about listening in that job, but how'd you get that job?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, okay, this is kind of a fun story. I was in college. I actually had a full ride scholarship, and I know people are going to go, "Oh, this was the stupidest mistake you could have made." But it was the right one for me. I'm not recommending it for anyone else, but I was in school, and that creative side of me was really starting to come out. And I was just having a really hard time connecting to my classes, even wanting the degree I was going for, which was in some kind of business something. But I'd always been a writer. I loved to write, and I just needed ... I thought, this is ridiculous. I was working two jobs, going to school full-time. I was exhausted. And I finally told my family, I said, "I I need a break. I got to figure out what I'm going to do with my life, because I'm killing myself and I don't even want what I'm killing myself for. Why am I doing this?" But I needed to have a job obviously, and my mom said, "Well, why don't you take a break from school, go down and get a job. One job. Let's focus here. One job. Go try it at the local paper. You love to write."

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And I told her, I said, "Well, yeah, journalism, yuck. I don't like journalists. They're so mean and cruel, and they don't seem to care about anybody." I mean, this was my view at the time. It hasn't changed much, to be honest. But anyway, "I don't like them. I don't like how they do what they do." And she said the best, most brilliant thing to me. You know, mothers, they know how to reach you. And she said, "Then do it your way." And of course that to me was like, ooh, my way? Not only is that a challenge, but ooh, that's creative. I like that idea. So, my 19 year old self went down to talk to the publisher. Her name's Nancy. Still friends with her, Nancy Miller. She's a doll. And anyway, she's a definite newspaper woman, you know?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And I come in and I sit down and talk to her about this job, and she said, "Look, kid, here's the thing. I could hire you., but you don't know what you're doing. It could be okay, though," because she said, "Here's the thing. I bring these people in that have had these degrees. They think they know what they're doing." She said, "Then I try to show them they don't know what they're doing, they won't listen. But you, you don't know anything. So I could probably teach you. But I need some time to think about it. Come back in a week and I'll talk to you then." And I said, "Okay, I'll come back in a week." So I came back. It was a Tuesday or Wednesday. I don't remember, but I said, "Okay." So I came back exactly a week later and she said, "Eh, I don't know, I'm still thinking about it. Come back in a week." And I said, "Okay, I'll be back in a week." We did this for six weeks.

Robert Wagner:

Oh, wow.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So I made sure I came back every single ... If it was a Tuesday, I made sure it was that day. You know? Every single Tuesday for six weeks, I just made myself a nuisance basically, to let her know I want this job. So she finally says, she goes, "Okay, here's the thing. I'm going to give you two days to prove yourself. If you can hack it, you can stay. If you can't, you're gone. No complaining, no whining. Is that an agreement?" And I said, "That works for me. I'm cool with that." And my first day was ... It was actually crazy. We had like a mass accident on I-40.

Robert Wagner:

Oh, wow.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So I'm running out to that. Never done this before. We had a house fire that I was running out too. There was like a rotary meeting. I didn't even know what rotary meant. You know? I mean, it was just crazy, crazy, crazy. And I loved it. I just loved it. I loved the challenge. I loved getting to meet people. I loved being in the world, interacting in the world. And so that's how I started, and I just kind of stuck with it. I never ended up going back to school, so I never got my degree. I just stayed in it and eventually moved into newspaper management in a different location, then eventually into magazine management, and then ultimately into marketing, advertising and teaching. So yeah, it's just been an evolution. It was the right call for me. It really was. It was the right call for me. It was just the way that my brain worked But anyway, and you asked me what I learned?

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

What I learned about it. You know, a lot of it really was learning obviously that individualism, which was really big. I really honed that in, and really to learn how to see people. I mean, to truly look at people and see them. And I love that. It gave me a really rich appreciation for people, because I could sit down and I always knew ... This was the thing that was crazy. I always knew when I got an assignment, it could be, "I want you to go out and interview the person who manages the septic tanks out at the ..." You know, whatever it was.

Robert Wagner:

The dirty job guy.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Yeah. And it's like, "Oh, you got to you kidding me. Okay." And it could be the most boring or awful assignment. It didn't matter. I knew when got there, there was something fascinating waiting for me every single time. And so it gave me this expectation about life, too. You know? Don't ever go into something and go, "Oh gosh, that's going to be so boring." It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. There's going to be something fascinating, something I can learn, something I can experience, just something that's new that I've never come across before. There's always something there. And it doesn't matter how long I've been doing this. That has never stopped. I still experience that, even when I'm working with companies and people with advertising, marketing, it's still there. And it can be like, yeah, we make widgets. This is what we do. We make widget. It's like, okay, cool. We're going to do this. This is going to be fun. You know?

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So, that's the ...

Robert Wagner:

That's very cool. I love that about my job. We get to talk to different business owners. There's so many ways to make money in this world and so many different kind of services to provide. That's what gets me up in the morning is to go hear someone's story about what they're trying to do. So, I relate to that a lot.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And story is the key word.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah, exactly.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

We all relate to story.

Robert Wagner:

Okay, so, I got to ask this question. I go a couple of questions I have to ask a writer person. Are you a card carrying member of the grammar police?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

I'm the opposite, as a matter of fact. I'm the opposite. No, not at all. I'm much more about ... I prefer the meaning of words other than the strict, you know, strict by the line execution of them, I should say.

Robert Wagner:

So you can read someone else's writing and enjoy it and just sort of let anything that you see that's kind of off-

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Oh gosh, yeah.

Robert Wagner:

... you can let that go.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Absolutely.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, not only that, but as I write myself now ... I'm not in business, but for instance in novels or creative writing of some kind, I take a great pleasure and delight in breaking rules. And I know there's a lot of grammarians and English teachers out there that are just like, "Oh, this girl," you know? I love it, though, if it works. You have to know the rule to break it. But if it works, I delight in it. I truly do. So if anybody else can pull it off, I'm like, "Good for you. That's awesome."

Robert Wagner:

Okay. That's good. So what's your top grammar pet peeve, even though you're not a member of the grammar police?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Even if I'm not a member of the grammar police. Let's see. It would probably be something like ... I have to really think about that one. Yeah, maybe a few basic words, like if you spell T-O and you're actually meaning T-W-O, the number two or something. I mean, something really, really basic that might be like, oh gosh.

Robert Wagner:

Can't let that go.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

We got to try a little harder, that one. Mine basically, it's like if you make it out of second or third grade with grammar, you're good, but you got to at least make it out of second or third grade.

Robert Wagner:

All right. My current one is less and fewer. I just ....

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Yeah.

Robert Wagner:

It's bothering me. I think the people who decide these things have just said it doesn't matter anymore. We're going to let people say whatever they want.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

I think so, yeah.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. So you have written a trilogy that you call the Another series, and the titles are Not Another Superhero, Just Another Sidekick, and Always Another Villain. So, tell us about the series and why you wrote it.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Well, of course every writer wants to be a novelist, right?

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And part of it is because I have so many stories in my head, it's like either I get them out or they're going to start getting crowded and fighting each other. So I wrote the book so we could move some space out of my brain and fill it with other ideas. But the story really came from ... Personally, I love to read obviously. I couldn't even tell you how many books I have in my car right now, because what if I get stuck in traffic? There's always some reason to have a book around. And I am a person that I just really love the side of writing novels in particular should unburden people. There should be something about it that unburdens you. You shouldn't read a novel and feel heavier and weightier, necessarily.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Now, there are topics obviously that's going to do that, but that's not going to be me. That's just not going to be my style. I want a story to actually be real escapism. I want you to be able to go and feel comfortable and safe, and I want you to be scared and thrilled and completely in love with the characters, in love with the relationships, just completely absorbed in it. And I want you to feel safe at the same time. That's really important to me. And the books that I was seeing, I saw real progression into darkness that I didn't like. It seemed like anybody to show they're bonafide as an author, they have to dive into something that's really dark. Their villains have to be really, really devious and really dive into stuff that weighs you down when you're done with it. You know? You're like, "Wow, that was fun, kind of."

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And I didn't like that aspect. And I thought, "I don't understand why we can't have something that is light." You know? That leaves you light, that's still phenomenally entertaining, that's still sharp and witty and mysterious. And you can't guess the end. Why can't I still be mentally stimulated and not have the darkness? And that's really what I wanted to do with my novel writing was to say, okay, I want to give you a story that it's a mystery. You will not be able to solve it before it's done. You're going to have twists and turns. I want romantic relationships that are classy, but fun and delightful, and you love these characters. You want them together. Language that was intriguing that wasn't cheap. And oftentimes, there's a lot of just laziness and dialogue with writing. All those things. But then also at the end actually be like, "Okay, that made me happy." When I'm done, I can close that book and go, "That was fun, and I kind of smile when I look at that book." That's what that was about. And so that's when I started ... Everything I write from a novel standpoint, that's the heart behind it.

Robert Wagner:

Got you.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And so then the stories come from there.

Robert Wagner:

Got you.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And that's what ... The Another series takes you through a challenge of a girl basically surviving some pretty interesting events and laughing. You better laugh. If you don't laugh, then I don't like you. No, the laughing should be part of the release, I think, for people as they read.

Robert Wagner:

Very good. So, I want to tie this back to business. What have you learned trying to sell books?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Oh my goodness. Well, we could have a whole other podcast on that one. Actually, I do a class now on that because of what I learned. And it really is about the class ... I remember my title. It's sell the result, not the book, or something like that. I can't remember my own title right now. But anyway, I learned that what I thought how I could get across was just not going to resonate with people. I tried to get them to love my story before they had read it. You know? I want you to love my story. It's the same thing that businesses do. I realized it. I didn't at first. It took me a little while. I realized, I can't believe I'm doing exactly what I tell all my clients not to do. But I wanted to sell that story. I thought, I'm going to tell them about this story and they're going to be so phenomenally inspired by this idea, they're going to be like, "Oh, I want this book and I must dive into this."

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And they responded just like everybody else does when you stop and you start telling them about my business. Well, I founded in 1983 and we office over here, and this is the services we offer. It was the exact same response I was getting. And I was actually at a book signing. Well, it was a book club, a book event, I should say, in downtown Tulsa is where it happened. We're all outside, and was one of those book fairs, you know? And I'd done a couple of them at this point, and I wasn't really connecting. People were not ... They'd look at the book, "Oh, okay, that's nice." You know? Eventually, and move on. And I thought, "This is not working. This is what I do for a living. I help people sell stuff. What is wrong? What am I doing wrong?"

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And that's how I realized. I thought, "I'm going to have to try something different." So there was a woman who actually walked up to the table and she was like, "Oh." She's looking at the book and she's like, "So what's the book about." That's what they're always going to ask. "What's the book about?" And I told her, I said, "Well, here's the thing. If you're a person who doesn't like to laugh, like you don't like laughing," I said, "then don't buy this book. You're not going to like my book. Because you're going to laugh. And if you don't like that, this is a bad investment for you." And she looked at me and she said, "But I like to laugh."

Robert Wagner:

Who doesn't like to laugh?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Right. And I said, well, okay. But here's the thing. If you don't like mystery. You want to read a story and you know exactly what to expect from one page to another, I mean, you don't even really have to read the book to know the story, you don't like mystery, you're not going to like this book. So you have to like laughing and you have to like mystery. She's like, "I love mystery, though. But I love that." And I said, "Okay, all right. But still, do you like romance? You know, things where there's good relationship and really witty dialogue? Or do you like things are kind of boring and it's just not really your thing, relationships and books and witty dialogue and chemistry, and that's just not your thing." And she's like, "Oh my gosh, I love all those things. I love this. I love everything of this." And she picks up the book and she opens it up and starts reading it.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And I realized, I was like, "Ooh, I just pulled her down the funnel." The first one. And she starts reading the very first paragraph, and she says, "Oh my gosh, I have to have this book. I must have this book." I still hadn't told her about the story. So she buys the book, and it was funny. She leaves later on. She's with her family and she's walking by and she starts yelling to everybody, "This girl is hilarious. You have to buy her book. This is amazing. You have to buy her book." This woman still did not know what the story was, unless she had stopped in the middle of it to read. She still didn't know the story. And I realized, I thought, okay, now I've figured out what I was doing wrong. Same thing many companies do. We want people to care about what we are passionate about, what we have done. And they just don't yet. What they want to know is, "How does it affect me?"

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

It's your basic sales technique, right? They don't really care about you. They care about what you can do for them. And I started doing that. So I started doing that with my book and I thought, "Okay, I've got to get them to understand what they're going to get out of it." They don't care about the story, not really. Not until they get into it. They want to know, "What am I going to get out of it?" So that's how I started to market it. And yeah, it's definitely been different. It's been different. The reaction is completely different. Then you get people picking up the book and going, "Oh, well, this sounds really fun." They still have no idea what the story is. "This sounds really fun. I need to read this." It's like, "Yeah, you should."

Robert Wagner:

Very good. We try to do that here at HoganTaylor, particularly in our advisory practice, which is the consulting part of the firm. We don't try to sell accounting. Who wants more of that? No one. No one does, right? But what about the confidence you could get from numbers that mean something.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

There you go. Bingo.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. We're practicing. So, you said ... I think the answer to this question is just a simple yes, maybe, but is there more books coming? You said you wrote the trilogy to get sort of-

Tara Lynn Thompson:

To get some space.

Robert Wagner:

... some RAM in your head. Right?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

Have some new RAM available. So is there more books coming?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Absolutely yes.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

I'm in the process of the next series, so ...

Robert Wagner:

Awesome. All right. Okay. Well, Tara Lynn, we have enjoyed the time together and we're down to the end, but we're not quite to the end yet, because we have five questions that we ask every guest.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Oh. Okay, fun.

Robert Wagner:

All right.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Is it rapid fire questions?

Robert Wagner:

It doesn't have to be, but ... So, what was the first way you made money?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Working with my dad in the construction business.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Lots of sanding. Lots of dusting. Lots of muddy nail holes in walls.

Robert Wagner:

Oh wow.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Things like that. Yes. And a little bit of staining, but he never let me lacquer. That was for people of a higher caliber than myself.

Robert Wagner:

Got it. That's excellent. Not qualified to lacquer.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

So if you were not a writer, what do you think you would be doing? Maybe you would've finished that accounting degree that you started.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Right? If I wasn't a writer, I would probably be some kind of maybe life coach or something. I love to encourage people, so I probably would've looked for ways to do that. My writing doesn't ... Now I try to take what they're doing and help them, and encourage them so they can be successful. I would probably just find another way to do that.

Robert Wagner:

Got you. Got you. So, you told us about your 19 year old self. So, what would you tell that 19 year old?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

From my-

Robert Wagner:

Today.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

From my, what, 20 year old self now?

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

I would tell her to just don't quit. Just don't quit. Things are going to get hard. And there are going to be bad times, and there's going to be good times, and there's going to be a struggle. And the struggle, believe it or not, is really where you're going to learn the most. And you'll remember it. It's the really easy times that you won't really remember much. Give it a year or two and you won't remember those. But it's the struggles and the times that you really had to fight hard and dig in deep, and pull something out of yourself that you didn't even think that you could do, that you don't forget that. But not only that, but it makes you something different on the other side of it. And so, that's what I would tell her. Yeah. Don't give up. Keep going, and learn from the bad.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

As a matter of fact, I have a mentor, and one of the things he was telling me during a period that I had a really awful job ... Well, I mean, the job was great, but the environment was difficult, and the management didn't know what they were doing, and getting everybody into all kinds of trouble. I was just constantly frustrated all the time. And he kept telling me, he said, "Okay, but what can you learn from them? Well, okay, but what can you learn from them?" And he finally kept telling me this. And finally I was like, I think I'm getting it. You know? He said, "You're going to have to look at it this way. Instead of I need to fix this, I need to fix this problem, you can't. You're not in a position to do that. You're going to have to deal with it, but while you're dealing with it, learn from it. So then you can turn around and when you have people under your command or you're leading this or you're doing that, then you know what not to do, and you've learned from it. You've gained something from it."

Tara Lynn Thompson:

So that's what I would tell that 19 year old girl. There are going to be some really hard times. Just learn from it. And then it becomes a wealth of not just knowledge, but exceedingly priceless value that you get to take, you get to keep with you as you move forward into something else.

Robert Wagner:

All of that is so good. So very, veery good. We've tried to encourage our folks that during this crazy time of COVID, I mean, this is when careers are made.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

I was going to say, this is prime opportunity. That's what a lot don't realize. Yeah.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. It's really hard to see now because it's really hard, but a lot of people will look back and say, "Okay, that's when I learned something about myself, about how the world works, something I did in my career that catapulted me to something else."

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Those fires do refine, and the refinement really is precious. So ...

Robert Wagner:

Very good. Right out of the scriptures. Very good. What would be the title of your book? You've already written three, but the book about Tara Lynn.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

My life book?

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

That would probably be The Great Unknown, I think. The Great Unknown of some kind because I don't ever feel like I ever know. I will never know all that I want to know. I can never quite consume enough information to feel like I'm ahead of where I need to be, which is one of the reasons why I read so much. I think a lot of times, people look at others who are reading books and they go, "Oh, they're so smart." And if you ask most people who read a lot, they'd go, "It's because I don't know anything. I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to learn all the time." So it would be that and the fact that I have a passion for that, and the fact that I think that some of the greatest happen in the dark, really. Those I would say not the known.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

We have a tendency to look at celebrities and fame and we admire it and all this stuff. And it really is the people that you probably have never heard about who are doing some of the most marvelous, amazing, spectacular, phenomenal exciting things in the world that's going on, and nobody even about it. And when I was a reporter, also through what I do now, I get to hear those stories. And nobody's going to know their name, not really, but they're the most interesting things. And so I really think it's that; the unknown. If we can look beyond the neon signs of look at this person here and look at this thing over here and get past that and go into the shadows and look at what isn't being highlighted all the time and shoved at us all the time and whatnot, and glorified I should say, that's when you really start to find the richness of life.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

And so I think kind of that's my tale, too. I don't look to be famous. I have no desire for that whatsoever. You can read my books and never know my name. Just read the books. I don't care. But it's that unknown. What is that, that journey, that constant journey of learning and knowing people and things that are ahead. I don't ever want to get to a place where I'm complacent and I'm comfortable. I honestly never want to walk into a room and feel like the expert. I never want that feeling. I think that puts me in a very weakened position, for one thing. I think it probably means I'm probably the least thin of having the least knowledge if I walk into a room feeling like the expert. I want to feel like I'm always that student. I'm there to learn and I'm there to share and walk with you. You know? We're going to learn together. We're going to walk together through this process, kind of thing.

Robert Wagner:

Very good. Okay, last question. What is the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

These are good questions, for one thing. I'm just going to have to give you a shout-out to that. The best advice I've ever been given. Oh, man. That's a rough one. I would say it would be to glorify God in all things. That is absolutely my passion, and it keeps me levelheaded. It keeps me humble. It keeps my brain out of my own self. And it gives me a lot of joy, because seeking constant self-fulfillment is a beast that you can never satiate, right?

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

It's always hungry. But if I do everything to bring glory to God, then even the smallest thing can be a joy. So I don't know if that's advice necessarily, but I would say yeah, that's probably the best thing I've ever learned.

Robert Wagner:

Is that a learning or did someone offer that up to you?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Definitely my dad, yeah.

Robert Wagner:

That's a great spot to end. I appreciate it so much, Tara Lynn. I appreciate you being here. If folks want to find out more about you or to buy your books, how do they do that?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

They can go to taralynnthompson.com. I'm also on Amazon obviously, and Barnes and Noble, and Walmart I think even had one of them. May still online. I haven't checked in a while.

Robert Wagner:

And so Tara Lynn Thompson.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

.com.

Robert Wagner:

They want not just books, but they want coaching or content creation and things like that?

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Anything. Speaking, I do a fair amount of that also. So, yeah. Any of that.

Robert Wagner:

All right. Thanks again. Appreciate it.

Tara Lynn Thompson:

Thank you. It's been fun.

Robert Wagner:

That's all for this episode of How That Happened. Thank you for listening. Be sure to visit howthathappened.com for show notes and additional episodes. You can also subscribe to our show on iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Thanks for listening. This content is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. Copyright 2021 HoganTaylor LLP, all rights reserved. To review the HoganTaylor general terms and conditions, visit www.hogantaylor.com.