24. Scott Lambert - Travertine Elevator Interiors

Scott Lambert:

I know that if you just find good people around you, you can be super successful. It goes back to just getting everyone together and getting the right people in place. We just really like that value relationship that we have with our customers, that they trust us and we trust them. Our customer is busy, just like everyone out there because the customers are busy. So the more you can take off their plate, the more they're going to use you.

Robert Wagner:

From HoganTaylor, CPAs and advisors, I'm Robert Wagner and this is How That Happened, a business and innovation success podcast. Each episode of the show, we sit down with the business and community leaders behind thriving organizations to learn how business and innovation success actually happens. Our guest today is Scott Lambert. Scott is the owner of Travertine Elevator Interiors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a company that he and his wife, Christine founded in 1998 in Los Angeles. Scott is a native Californian and has a degree in psychology from California State University in Chico. Scott, welcome to the How That Happened podcast.

Scott Lambert:

Thank you very much for having me.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah, really excited for our conversation today.

Scott Lambert:

Me too.

Robert Wagner:

So Scott, you work in the elevator industry and specifically elevator interiors. And I just wanted to start with just a contextual question for you to kind of explain what that industry is. I mean, if I'm sitting here thinking about an elevator and I've got to buy an elevator for my building, I'm going to think it comes with an interior, but it doesn't. So take us and tell us what that's all about.

Scott Lambert:

Well, it's interesting. I started off with Schindler Elevator in 1991 and they took me through the whole sales process. And we moved to Oklahoma in 1996 and I was still working for Schindler Elevator and I was purchasing elevator cabin interiors from different vendors and what they did and didn't do was kind of interesting. What they didn't do was deliver on time. Some of them would deliver quality product and some of them wouldn't, but they were also charging a lot of money. So I thought, "You know what? I could do that." And so I started looking into the industry and really what people think, it's very, very nichey, the industry. We're a union company for installation and we've been union from day one. And what we do is so Otis Elevator, Thyssenkrupp, KONE, Schindler Elevator will install the elevator interior.

And in the higher end buildings, the class A, class B buildings, they will want an interior, like a special wall paneling system or a special ceiling or flooring, or all the above, with handrails and so forth. And so what we do is we supply that. We're a subcontractor to those companies. So we're kind of like the Sherpa behind the elevator companies. They hire us to do the specialty materials in each elevator. So what we do is we manufacture the interiors at our Dallas plant or our Los Angeles plant. Then we ship them out to the job site and then we have our union people install. It's interesting because we do that for new construction and modernization. And it's interesting for the modernization people because what they'll do sometimes is that they'll put just a brand new interior in and not do anything to their elevator equipment. And the perception is that they got a brand new elevator-

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

In the building and the owners love that.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

And so it's a highly technical application and just no one can install an elevator interior because it's only 30 square feet of the elevator. So it's very close proximity to what you're looking at. So everything has to be really precise and look great, because the eye is right next to it. It's been a great business for our family. We have numerous people in our family working at Travertine and it's been a great, great business for us over the years.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So Scott, I'm intrigued by the industry and have been, so there's just four elevator companies in the world. Is that right?

Scott Lambert:

The major ones.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

They call those the major ones and then you have hundreds of independent elevator. In the olden days in the early 2000s or late 1900s, they say you never get fired for hiring IBM. Well, same thing with like the big four. You never would get fired by putting in a notice elevator Schindler, Thyssenkrupp, or KONE because they're just all quality applications. You could use up with the smaller independence, they're even more focused on maintenance and a couple of them do do installations, but most of the big four take care of the large projects around the United States. And really our core business are the big four.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So Scott, who's the customer in your business?

Scott Lambert:

So our customer is the owner, but they don't know it.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

And the person that purchases it from us is the elevator companies or the general contractors and occasionally the owners direct. So we have to kind of manage that whole process and also with the architects too, that we meet their expectations. That's one of our claims to fame is we try to really take care of the whole process, from start to finish a turnkey. Where some elevator cab companies just want to supply only, we want to help you design, we want to help you manufacture it, we want to help you install it. We want to make sure that it's a turnkey application for you so it's a one-stop shop to make it easy for you.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. I just wanted to draw that out that there's, at least my recollection in working with you, is that there's several buying channels or at least several folks to satisfy along the process, which is different than some businesses, right?

Scott Lambert:

Right, right.

Robert Wagner:

It has an impact on the sales.

Scott Lambert:

And we look at that as for us, I was just talking about today, as an advantage because our customer is busy, just like everyone out there. Their customers are busy. So the more you can take off their plate, the more they're going to use you as a company. And I really try to instill that into everyone that works for us is that we're a cab company, really we're a service company, just like every organization out there. You have to take care of your customer. And if you take care of them, you should get repeat business.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And it's really important for us. And we just really like that value relationship that we have with our customers, that they trust us and we trust them.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Okay. We'll circle back to the industry and the product and stuff at some point. But I want to kind of go back to the beginning of your career. So you earned a degree in psychology. What was the plan there?

Scott Lambert:

The plan was to get out of college. As I said, a two goes through the same door as a 4.0.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And so I got out and it is interesting. Everyone always, Robert as you've seen over the years, everybody always looks at the end result of, "Oh my gosh. Scott and Christine have had this wonderful company for 21 years now," but they forget that I had 15 businesses that failed before that. I was in the auto detailing business where we did really well until we dyed the leather wrong color and it cost me $25,000 to get that, window washing, sold Astro turf, sold siding, sold windows. I mean, just selling, selling, selling, trying to push. So there's a lot of failure and my wife kind of laughs about that. A lot of failure, but also a lot of persistence-

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

In that and really perseverance. And so I get to this point where I have an opportunity to start Travertine and my wife fortunately had a great job. We saved our money. The American success story, saved our money, started working, didn't make money for about four months and then we started making money and we've been profitable from day one after that point.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So did you start Travertine from scratch or-?

Scott Lambert:

Yes.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. Yeah. And we're really proud of that and we've never had taken investment money and we've grown purposely because we've had an opportunity to get larger, but we didn't want to disappoint our customer base. And so we've really focused in on making sure that we do well, three things. We're a super safe company, we deliver on time, and we deliver quality product. And so those three focuses have been, they go throughout our company. In construction, on time delivery is so important to our customer.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Financially too.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. It's a moving target too, right?

Scott Lambert:

Oh, yeah. That's a great insight on that. That's where we spend most of our time is making sure that we deliver on time with that moving target. And that's hard so you have to manufacture a lot of material upfront, so it's sitting there and ready to go.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah, that's one thing that I remember from just taking a tour in your Dallas facility was the on time thing was so important to you that you were ahead basically of delivery time. So you were ready when they called and said, "So and so's finished early, can you get your stuff here?" And you can say yes to that, which is a very powerful thing.

Scott Lambert:

Well, it's interesting when people come to our factories when they are invited. They're always amazed at how many machines we have. I mean, from a laser to routers to shears. I mean, it's really amazing. And also the amount of inventory that is ready to deliver in both our Los Angeles shop and our Dallas shop. And I know some people over the years have said, "Scott, maybe you need to do more on time delivery," but that's not how I want to. I want that flexibility and it's worked for us profitability-wise over the years to be prepared, because storage is not that expensive.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Compared to an unhappy customer.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

We just keep focusing on the customer, keep focusing. And that's been our core value since day one.

Robert Wagner:

So you said a minute ago that you were profitable really within just a few months, which is fantastic, but what were the surprises early on in running Travertine, starting it up and getting it going?

Scott Lambert:

One of the surprises is, or was, my lack of knowledge of accounting, believe it or not.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

And just not having that business exposure. I had to make a lot of decisions from my gut. And I always tell younger people now, "If you can go get your accounting degree or your law degree, that will put you way ahead of the curve. It'll probably save you at least five years, if you ever want to start your own company," because it took me a long time to understand and to learn the hard way how all that worked. And so I was really, really surprised about that. Also how to manage shop personnel and front field personnel. It's a different approach than being in an office and it was really interesting to me because I was going around, just a little bit behind the curtains on this, I was going around every time.

Somebody would do a good job, the shop guys, I'm like, "Thank you so much." And I truly believed it, but I had my shop foreman who was with me from day one, Rick Martinez. He was awesome, awesome person. He's like, "Scott." He goes, "With shop personnel, field personnel, don't say thank you all the time to them because then they think it's disingenuous." And I thought that was super interesting to me because that's not how I felt, but that's what I learned. And so I took his advice, just like I try to take everyone's advice and I do it in other ways now than just saying thank you.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And it's worked out really well for me.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So how is the business organized? Your offices are here in Tulsa. Manufacturing's not here. It's in Dallas and Los Angeles. How does the installation crew aspect of it work, I guess?

Scott Lambert:

Well-

Robert Wagner:

Are those employees that they do the installation?

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. They're employee, they're Travertine employees, but they are part of the International Elevator Contractors Union.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

I think it's IUEC. And so what they supply is a workforce for us and a skilled workforce that works safe. So whenever we have a job that is ready to install, and that's part of the organization, we have a schedule put out for them that they know where they're going to job. So for instance, I mean like Las Vegas was, and is, still a very busy city for us. We probably have done, this isn't bragging, but I mean like 85% of the elevators-

Robert Wagner:

Oh, wow.

Scott Lambert:

In Las Las Vegas. I mean, we've just done a lot of elevators and it's been a great market for us because that is an on time delivery. I mean, you don't deliver on time in Vegas. I mean, that's a lot of money. We manufacture the material in our shop, have it ready to go, and then we have a schedule we're working through with the elevator companies or the general contractor to make sure that our union people show up. So when we show up with the material, they unload it and then install it.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

In the elevators.

Robert Wagner:

So do you have to compete against non-union shops?

Scott Lambert:

Yes and no.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

The big four are union and they are to use only other union elevator cab companies.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

And also the big four, for us, that's a little bit of a barrier entry, they have to use just other, but also you have to have the financial wherewithal to support these big projects. I mean, we just did El Paso. It's a hospital for the Army Corps of engineers. It was their largest project and we just finished it, but I want to say it was like a couple million dollar project and so you have to be able to carry some of that.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

For them over a six year period.

Robert Wagner:

Wow.

Scott Lambert:

So smaller companies would have a hard time-

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Doing that and also be able to manage it.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So Scott, how would you describe your management style?

Scott Lambert:

It's interesting. It depends on who you ask. I would describe my management style as directing people on what to do and then backing off and letting them do it. I'm a horrible, horrible manager of following up. I just don't do a great job of it. Because if I talk to you about it, I just figure you're going to go do it.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And if you don't go do it, then we'll go deal with it. I'm not a very good hands on manager, which is why I've had to hand that off to Chris, my wife. She's great at communicating, much better than I am, great at following up, and great at directing traffic where I'm more of an entrepreneur, like let's get it going. I can see the big picture, I know how to get things going, but I have to have people around me and that's why I hire great people. I have to have people around me to do the things that I can't do, which is really manage. I'm just not a very good manager. I'm a great person of getting things started and getting it going and running. I'm just not a great day to day person.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. I relate to that. I tell people I'm not a great checker-enterer.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah, yeah.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. And I don't want people working for me that are great checker-enterers either.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

The ideal candidate for us is someone that is in a job that I can see wants the opportunity to be an entrepreneur, but doesn't want to take that risk but wants that freedom. And those people that when we can find them and we put them in our company, they excel. They make tons of money and they do super well. And it's just exciting to watch that too.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Probably one of the greatest joys to watch that for me personally.

Robert Wagner:

Very cool. So still talking a little bit about leadership and management, Scott, as we're recording this, we're in May of 2020. We think the country's opening up after the coronavirus shut down. Who knows how that'll turn out, but let's go back to 2000 kind of 2008, 2009. That was a devastating time for the construction industry, which I assume hit you pretty hard. What was that like? And how did you kind of manage through that?

Scott Lambert:

It's interesting because right now, let's just stop right now for a second.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Because a lot of people are operating from fear and I think moving forward, it's going to be a great moment for people once we get the vaccine. Once we get the vaccine, I'm a firm believer that we're going to accelerate the business factor moving forward. And the reason why I think that is going back to 2008, we all think we're so important. And we all think that in this moment, "Oh my God, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

It's not. It's all temporary. And so 2008, what that taught me is a couple things. What it taught me is to go find really good counsel on how to work through the situation. I talked to quite a few men that were older than me. I was 42 years old, I think, or 45 years old at the time. And I went and talked to men that were 65, 70 years old. And one of them told me, "It doesn't matter how deep this is going to be in 2008." Because we all saw the destruction that was coming. He goes, "How long it's going to last." And so I went, "Okay. Well, that's interesting." So I took that. I went and met with my banker and said, "Please tell me what to do from your perspective as a banker." And his name is David Jeter. And I owe David Jeter. He's Bank of Oklahoma, I owe him a lot. I mean, to this date, I almost get emotional thinking about it, but he gave me a direction that helped Travertine survive 2008.

And then also we went to our accounting firm, went over it with our accounting and they gave us direction on just some ideas. And I really took all that in and we got through it. And once you get through it, you're like, "Okay, that was horrible." To this day, it still affects me. What is that? How long ago is that?

Robert Wagner:

12 years.

Scott Lambert:

12 years.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

In fact, this morning, I was just talking to Chris and I said, "Chris, if it slows down, let's think about this, this, and this as we move forward."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And she's like, "Okay. Yeah." She goes, "Why do you think it's going to go in that direction?" I go, "I don't think it is, but just in case."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

"Let's plan so we're prepared." Because in 2008, we weren't planning for that. We didn't know. We kind of felt it was going to come, but we didn't know it was going to be. We went from doing $15 million in revenue to $3.5 million revenue in less than a year.

Robert Wagner:

Wow.

Scott Lambert:

And we went from 85 employees to 24 employees in little less than a year. And that was really hard on me personally because they weren't employees to me, they were families to me. I just didn't take that, I never did to this day. It's very personal to me.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. Business is very personal to me. I think that's one of my strong suits is that I care. That we all care.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And if you care, it's not just a business. It becomes more of a family to you.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. That is great stuff. Very, very good stuff. So clearly that is helping you have perspective on the times we're living in.

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

Right now.

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

And Robert I'm super, super excited about the future. In fact, I told my kids. I said, "There's going to be so much opportunity that's going to pop out of this. And the bummer thing is that I'm 56 years old."

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

I've had my time, and I'm still going to be pushing forward on some other things, but really it's the people that are in their late twenties and early thirties that are going to really have a great opportunity moving forward out of this and we don't really even know what that means.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

I mean, think about, what, 25 years ago, 30 years ago, Panasonic was around.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

Microsoft was getting started 30 years ago.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And so it just shows you that life evolves and I just keep telling people around me, "We're not that important." We just need to keep that in focus because then it makes relationships a lot better.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Oh, it's so true. And it is a natural tendency to about how this is affecting me, right?

Scott Lambert:

Right, right.

Robert Wagner:

And it does something to our mind and our heart to kind of turn that equation around and think about how's this affecting other people, what could I do about it?

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

What's the opportunity?

Scott Lambert:

And being of service and the whole... I remember reading this one thing, this is a little off topic, but I remember reading this some nuns who was at Hillcrest Hospital and they said the two things... Well, there's 10 things of key to happiness. Number one was living below your means.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And number two was being of service.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

I mean, number one, I struggle with every day, but number two, we could control. We could control both of them, but number two, that's really, I think, is one of the keys and that is also true in business, is to be of service to others.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Yeah. So Scott, there's an observation that I've had in working with you over the past few years and we've just done several projects together, but you may not even agree with this, but I think it's true.

Scott Lambert:

Okay.

Robert Wagner:

You have a healthy paranoia about your business. And we work with a lot of owners who are paranoid, and particularly if they come from the sales bin, that's just a natural thing, but it's not a healthy paranoia. They're worried about if the phone's ever going to ring again and the phone is going to ring again, right? But I remember leaving a meeting with you and I was with one of my colleagues, Jason Schultz. We were talking and I said, "Man, Scott's paranoid." And Jason just pointed out, "Yeah. But it's a healthy paranoia because he's constantly thinking about how to make his business better." And I'm just kind of wondering where that comes from? Because once he sort of pointed that out to me, that is what you're about, is even in good times, you're thinking about how to make your business better and you're really grinding at it at an excruciating detail, right?

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

So where does that come from, you think?

Scott Lambert:

That's a good question, Robert and I know the answer. It's hard to say publicly, because it's kind of embarrassing, but I will, because other people will be able relate to it. It's a fear of failure.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

I have an unbelievable insecurity of fear of failure and I've had people tell me that and I wish I knew where that surrender line is located because I would walk right up to it and go, "Okay, I'm done," but I don't know where that line is.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And I've never been able to find it. And so it's been a driving force for me. And a lot of business owners, I shouldn't say a lot, but we have some insecurities and we all mask it in different ways.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

But for me, I love being the best and I love elevating people around me, that they are making more money they can make somewhere else.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

And they're having a lifestyle that they can have here better than they have somewhere else. Because that's really what working for a smaller company does, it is lifestyle and finances. Smaller businesses don't give you a lot of security.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

But they give you a great lifestyle and pay you well. And so for me, I'm always driving because I just don't want to let anyone and down, including myself. I had somebody tell me that when I was 27 years old and I was like, just... Yeah, he's right. And no one had ever told me that. And I'm glad he said that to me too.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Because it really kind of made me aware of myself.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So what has been some of the positive outcomes of that?

Scott Lambert:

I think trying to just always learn about new things. And I'm an avid reader about business and about people, I'm not an avid reader about just normal books. I mean, I read Wall Street Journal all the time. I read business articles all the time and I really have learned a lot of stuff because I'm such a believer of going and finding people or the information. And my wife kind of teases me a little bit that I'm always on the internet, looking for stuff because a lot of stuff interests me in business. I just want to make sure that I'm ahead of the curve on this and a little bit of paranoia, coming back to you, I want... Like just this week I'm learning about new market tax credits.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

And I never even knew that it existed three months ago. But now I feel pretty proficient about it because I've emailed with quite a few people. So it's just really driven me to learn and also the fear of failure has made me open up to be vulnerable to ask people for help.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Even at 56 years old.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah.

Robert Wagner:

Being able to ask questions.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. Being able to ask questions. Jason Schultz is a perfect example of someone that's much younger than me, but he has some really great input on our business and approach that I haven't thought of. And I thought that was really interesting when we spoke. I've really taken some of the things that he said to us to heart and applied it to our business.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that I noticed that you did is kind of just working through your process of designing and then manufacturing and installing an elevator interior is you described to me one time, but kind all the things you had done to make the installation go as smooth and easy as possible. Number one, that's the right thing to do, but because you're unionized, those are really costly people out there doing that work on site. You need to minimize that as much as possible, right? I mean, just really grinding into that, I think, it was very impressive to me.

Scott Lambert:

Well, it's interesting, right? We spend a lot of money to put a panel on a wall. And so that's what we're doing. Put a panel, put ceilings up in its simplest form, and so that means you have to have really good engineers. You have to have really good sales people. You have to have really good procurement people. You have to have really good shipping people. I mean, the whole process, every step of the way, you have to ensure that they know what they're doing and they understand their role in there. And it's like back to the moving target, it's hard for people because some people want to have a regimented job, but in Travertine, you can be doing the delivery, but also working on a panel to help us get it out. We spend a lot of money to focusing on making sure that we hit our time for the installation because that's our largest expense is the union labor and biggest exposure too.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. You just spurred a thought, I guess.

Scott Lambert:

Good.

Robert Wagner:

What's happening in relation to materials in your business? Is that changing, just technology type thing? Like lights have changed, right?

Scott Lambert:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Not really the materials. That's one of the things, in our company, we are learning how to handle it in different ways because before we were very rudimentary on how we would move the material around, but now we're starting to use better processes and better handling. Access hasn't changed that much, access with the tariffs has changed a little bit. The pricing has gone up a little bit, which is good and bad, but really the materials, it depends on really what the designers are doing at the time. Like 15 years ago, everything was bronze and stainless steel and now people like to use a lot of back painted glass.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

Actually, the look changes over the years, not really the materials.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

Too much.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. All right. So Scott, you married an Oklahoma girl, right?

Scott Lambert:

Yeah.

Robert Wagner:

I assume that's why you're back in Oklahoma, right?

Scott Lambert:

That's correct.

Robert Wagner:

That happens to a lot of us, right?

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. You too?

Robert Wagner:

Well, I'm a native Oklahoman, but people gravitate to where that spouse wants to be.

Scott Lambert:

It's the best move I have ever done. I mean, it's fantastic.

Robert Wagner:

So you're now in the middle of a brand new project, right?

Scott Lambert:

Correct.

Robert Wagner:

So tell us about that.

Scott Lambert:

Well, about in 1991, I was working for a Newport Beach Country Club as an assistant food beverage director and the food beverage director. And it was slotted to go over to the Balboa Bay Club, going to management over there, excuse me, before 1991. And then I had the opportunity to move into the elevator industry and I thought, "This will be interesting." And I loved the food and beverage. I love the hospitality industry, but when I moved over there, I thought, "You know what? One of these days I'm going to try to own or open a hotel," because I worked for the owner and the president of Balboa Bay Club and I really thought it was just an interesting business model. If you have hospitality in your blood, you have hospitality in your blood.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

You can't teach the way to have that. And so been looking around for all these years, almost bought two hotels in Laguna Beach and it didn't work out and then been looking over the years just for hotels. But it had to be there, there for me, for the hotel. I just didn't want to do a hotel just because. About three years ago, found a piece of land in Norman, Oklahoma, went to make an offer and somebody had already purchased it, right next to Campus Corner and right behind the president's house, about 200 steps from OU, North Oval. And when I went to go buy, it'd already been purchased. So about three years later, I'm still looking around and I went and talked to a realtor and I said, "Hey, talk to that person about that piece of property again." And just by timing, he was moving to Colorado. And he said, "If you want to pay me what I paid for it, done deal. We can make the deal." And I said, "Fantastic."

Robert Wagner:

Wow.

Scott Lambert:

And so I purchased the property with the idea of building a hotel there and started developing plans for the hotel, going through the process of the hotel. We're calling the hotel, the Noun. It's N-O-U-N and stands for North Of University. And it's on University Boulevard. And after about five seconds of coming up with the name, we're like, "Oh my gosh, that has OU in the middle of it too."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

So it was just a real natural name. And so started going through the zoning process. One of my first meetings, well, not my first meeting, was with the neighborhood association, but developing relationship with the neighborhoods, spent about a year and a half going and meeting with over, I'd say, 250 people now, have received tremendous support from city of Norman. Well, I shouldn't say a city of Norman, but the business affiliates and OU been talking with. You have a great economic impact study there from Dr. Daufenbach. And so just really excited about this. It's going to be fun. I need two rooms with a bar on the second floor, a restaurant on the first floor, a lobby obviously, and 3000 square foot of median space with an open area in the back also.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And ample parking too.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

So just super excited for Norman, super excited for OU. We just think it's going to be a fantastic project. The architecture is fantastic. It fits right in with the area. So just we're looking forward to it. We got through the rezoning process about two weeks ago and on June 23, we have the council vote and we are hoping that we will succeed in getting our votes to move forward.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. All right. Well, it's very, very exciting.

Scott Lambert:

Very exciting.

Robert Wagner:

So I guess the question I have for you, Scott, is you've got a great business and you've said your age a couple of times, you're 56. Is that right?

Scott Lambert:

Yes.

Robert Wagner:

So this is a big project. This is going to be millions of dollars and you're going to put some of your personal wealth into it. You're going to put really all of your personal capital, like who Scott is into it-

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

With kind of friends and family to get this thing done. Why? Why?

Scott Lambert:

We all have a dream, Robert and my dream is to own and operate a hotel, not manage it, but own and operate a hotel. And also, Robert, life is about relationships. And the hotel's going to be about having the opportunity to meet a lot of wonderful people for me and other people to meet each other. And so it's just an exciting, we're programming there. It's an exciting project. It's just not a hotel. It's going to be a really, we hope, a gathering place, a pillar for the community, a place where you can come and you can walk to different areas. There's so many wonderful reasons why to do it, but really it's something that I wanted to do for a long time.

And it's more of a passion. And it's interesting what you say about the personal capital, or the personal money, that I'm putting into it and why at 56 years old that you're going to risk that much money? That's turned out to be a really good thing. I was talking to some people and some investors, potential investors, and they said, "We're in with you right away," without even seeing the investor packet.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And I was shocked when they did that, because these are really good investors and they said to me, "Scott, anybody that's going to put that much money into a project as an owner, we believe in that it won't fail."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And I thought that was an interesting statement because I had never thought about that because I'm showing a financial commitment as well as personal capital commitment too.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

And it's just going to be a great project.

Robert Wagner:

Well, those guys have all seen the packets that come across and you've got one since you're kind of using it-

Scott Lambert:

Correct.

Robert Wagner:

Where the guy who's pitching it is putting no money into it basically.

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

Right. I've seen those.

Scott Lambert:

So we've all seen those.

Robert Wagner:

So it is a powerful thing when someone you know and you know successful and you trust them is also putting a significant amount of capital into it. Well, it's a question that I like to ask a lot of folks that have already been successful and they're in their late fifties, which I'm in my late fifties and I'm considering I'm just getting to my prime, honestly.

Scott Lambert:

Atta boy.

Robert Wagner:

But I like to ask it of folks who are 68, 70, 75, who are still going at it and kind of why, because it's guys like you that drive our economy, that drive employment, that drive progress, people who are willing to put up risk capital. So I always like to draw that out and kind of see what makes you tick.

Scott Lambert:

And Robert, it's fun.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

I mean, it's fun. Let's really get down to it, it's fun. The intellectual challenge of it, it's fun to get people together and do a project and it takes time and energy and it's super rewarding. I mean, I just had some great news today. I was telling you before we started this, and it's just super rewarding to see something come together that you know is the right thing, that you're doing it for the right reasons too. This isn't a money grab. This is a legacy.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Of a project for me.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

This is going to be a great project for the city and for OU and for the investors that are involved with it. I mean, it's embarrassing to say that it's fun because it was like, "Oh, business is business," but business should be fun.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

If you're doing a good job at it.

Robert Wagner:

Right, right. So, Scott, what have you learned over the years that's making this, I'm going to use the word fun-?

Scott Lambert:

Yeah.

Robert Wagner:

Or I wouldn't say easy because there's just nothing that's easy. But what are the things that you've learned over the years that are making it possible for you to do this, I guess?

Scott Lambert:

I go back to, I've hired all great people over from HoganTaylor to help me with the pitch book. I mean, they've done a fantastic job and given me great insight. I've hired great security lawyers to help me. I've hired a fantastic zoning attorney. I've hired fantastic Manhattan Construction to do my cost estimates, my budgeting. I've hired GH2 to do the architectural design. So over the years, I know that if you just find good people around you, you can be super successful. And also, it takes someone to put the team together and to lead the team because everybody gets frustrated. So as the leader, you have to go, "Okay, someone's getting frustrated. This group as the team, what do we do to elevate them and bring them together?" And also outside of the team, when you're dealing with a city process, which Norman's been fantastic-

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

But they have their own concerns about the project too. So to bring them into the fold and make sure that they're part of the project too. And it goes back to just getting everyone together and getting the right people in place and moving forward from there and that just takes time. And you know what also you get? You get a lot of referrals if good people refer to other good people.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

And it's shocking how many great people you can meet in business by referrals.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Well, thank you for that. And thank you for allowing us to be part of the team. We are really enjoying the project and it's a blast, and it is fun.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. You guys are great.

Robert Wagner:

So Scott, we're coming down to the close of our time together and we do ask every guest five questions.

Scott Lambert:

Great.

Robert Wagner:

The same five questions for everyone. So you ready?

Scott Lambert:

I'm ready. I have not read these questions.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

You asked me too, but I didn't.

Robert Wagner:

All right. So Scott, what is the first way you made money?

Scott Lambert:

That's a good question. The first way I made money was mowing lawns. It's interesting that you asked that question because we asked that question in our company when we interview people. A lady that I know, she interviews thousands of people and we go, "How do you know who to hire and who to get rid of?" And she said, "We ask the question of how old were you when you had your first job and what was your first job?"

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

"And if they say a dishwasher or at 16 or 15, but if they say my first job is this opportunity-"

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

She goes, "We don't hire them." She goes, "We look for people that have history of their work." So therefore like my kids, they've washed dishes at our bar. They've waited tables, they've worked. And so that's important. So mowing lawn's to answer your question was my first job. My buddy and I, we started at 16 years old, because he had a truck.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

We can put all that stuff in the back of the truck. He thought he was the boss and I thought I was the boss.

Robert Wagner:

All right. So Scott, if you were not running Travertine and not building a hotel, what do you think you would be doing?

Scott Lambert:

Probably starting another business.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

I would be trying to start another business.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

My best friend is president of Vote, a big software company and he is fantastic at being in a corporation. I tried working in a corporation. I was successful, but I just didn't feel good about myself. And he and I have talked about that where he can't do what I can do and I can't do what he does. Actually, when he told me that, that was really freedom, because I was feeling less than until he told me that.

Robert Wagner:

Scott, I mean, you're doing the hotel thing and you've already explained how that's sort of feeding a long-term desire that you've had. But is there another industry out there that interests you?

Scott Lambert:

Not right now.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

No. The elevator industry, there's so many different areas because there's escalators also.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And vertical transportation, there's a lot of opportunity out there for people that they want to get into it. You kind of have to know a little bit about it, but there's so much opportunity out there because the big companies, they need smaller companies like ours. When I say smaller, we're not small, but small enough to fill a niche with them to make them look good too.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

So I'm not that guy, Robert, I don't feel like I have the golden touch. I feel like I have a workman's mentality and so to go into another industry, because I do have food beverage and I do have hospitality background, so I feel good about that. But to go into software or go into some other area of expertise or industry, I just wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Okay. So back questions, number three. What would you tell your 20 year old self?

Scott Lambert:

It's funny, what I'll tell my 20 year old self is what I tell myself today, persevere, be persistent.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And never, ever give up. Never, never, ever give up. And I still say that to myself today and also always try something and then if you fail, that's okay.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

It's a little bit of embarrassing to yourself. And once again, nobody's thinking of us as much as we're think of ourselves.

Robert Wagner:

Exactly. Right.

Scott Lambert:

So even though you fail, nobody's going, "Oh my God, Scott failed that." But you think that, I think that.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

But I'd just keep trying and keep trying.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And until you get something that you... And be a good person.

Robert Wagner:

So Scott, what will the title of your book be?

Scott Lambert:

Well, I have severe dyslexia, so the title might be backwards on that. What would the title of my... My title of my book is Keep Looking Forward probably, Keep Looking Forward. I believe in the future.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

I'm a strong, strong believer in the future because once again, this is only temporary. Even when you're in a business situation, it's only a temporary bad business situation. It's going to get better.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

No matter what. Even in personal relationship, it might be bad, but it's going to get better.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. That's very good. So last question is what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Scott Lambert:

Cash is sincere. A gentleman told me one time, he goes, "Scott, never forget the cash is sincere," and I've really applied that to our business. And so we've done over probably 350 million to almost 400 million in business over 20 years. And we've only not been paid $69,000.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

Because cash is sincere.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Granted it's cost me a lot of money to say that line right there because we've always completed jobs that even if we had a disagreement, but people that sign contracts with us, we get lawyers to make sure that they do pay us because cash is sincere. I'm a firm believer if I supply you a service, I need to be paid for it. And for our vendors, same thing. If you supply us... We've paid every single one of our vendors over the last 21 years. Nobody has ever said, "Oh my God, Travertine has not paid us."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And so cash is sincere. I just have always remembered that because if you don't believe cash is sincere, you might as well not go into business, because you're not putting worth on the value of your service or product.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Because if you give it to someone, they need to pay you for it.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

And I know that it sounds kind of harsh, but-

Robert Wagner:

It's true.

Scott Lambert:

It's true. And a banker here locally told me one time, I thought it was just a great line. We were talking about just loans and borrowing money and he goes, "You know what is the most important part of loaning money to customers like you?" I go, "What's that? What's the most important part?" He goes, "Getting paid back." And I laughed and I thought, "A lot of people forget that part." That's important is getting the money back.

Robert Wagner:

Right.

Scott Lambert:

And I've always, that was years ago, respected that line. I thought that was kind of an interesting line because we all kind of say, "Oh, we're going to pay that person back," but cash is sincere.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

We got to make sure we do it.

Robert Wagner:

That's a great line. I don't know if I've ever heard that.

Scott Lambert:

Which one?

Robert Wagner:

That cash is sincere. Yeah. I mean, from a CFO chair, I think about that. I've never, again, not used that word before, but working with sales guys, when they've got the sale, they think it's done.

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

And then the operations guys, "Well, now when the customer's accepted, it's done." And I'm like, "No, it's when you get paid-"

Scott Lambert:

Right.

Robert Wagner:

"That's when you figure out you've done a good job and the customer's happy."

Scott Lambert:

So there's nothing you can do in a professional environment more sincere than hand somebody else a dollar.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

Yeah. I mean professionally.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah.

Scott Lambert:

So I just thought that was just great advice.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. All right. That's a good spot to close, Scott. Thanks very much for being with us.

Scott Lambert:

Robert, you did a great job. Thanks. You made me really comfortable. I appreciate that.

Robert Wagner:

Okay.

Scott Lambert:

Thanks.

Robert Wagner:

That's all for this episode of How That Happened. Thank you for listening. Be sure to visit howthathappened.com for show notes and additional episodes. You can also subscribe to our show on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. Thanks for listening.

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