16. Sam Walker - Green Tree Project

Sam Walker:

Green Tree Project stands for climate, community, convenience and Christmas. We just saw this gap in our beliefs and in our actions after Christmas, our trees get to be planted in the ground here in our local community, where they grow and grow and grow for decades.

Aaron Ackerman:

From HoganTaylor, I'm Aaron Ackerman, and this is How That Happened, a business and innovation success podcast. On each episode of the show, we sit down with business and community leaders behind thriving organizations to learn how business and innovation success actually happens.

Well, welcome back to another episode of How That Happened. I'm really, really excited about our guests today. Sam Walker's with me. Sam, thanks for being here.

Sam Walker:

Thank you for having me.

Aaron Ackerman:

Sam and I met probably, I don't know about a year ago maybe-

Sam Walker:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

... through the Thunder Launchpad. So Sam company, which we're going to talk about was part of the incubator at the launchpad and I really had the privilege of working with her. If you've ever read Sam Lencioni's book, The Ultimate Team Player, I think Sam fits the bill there. He talks about humble, hungry and smart, Sam, I think like you personify humble, hungry and smart. In fact, I had the privilege of introducing Sam to a group as she was going to do a presentation about her company. And I told everybody in the crowd like, "You don't want to bet against Sam. I don't think that's wise," And I still feel that way.

Sam Walker:

That's still one of the most flattering things anyone has said about me. It's really-

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, it is true. It's been a real pleasure for me to see you get started in this thing and just your dynamite. Anyway, I don't want to take away your thunder, but I will just for our listeners say, this company that Sam's going to talk about Green Tree Project, I think it's a really, really cool idea. And sometimes I get down in the weeds and analyze numbers and that's... I'm an accountant, so it's where I go. But sometimes I just think about like, "Would I want this?" This is something, and unfortunately, Sam, you can get me in trouble, I'm not a customer yet, but my family for sure will be a customer.

I like this idea. And I think it's something that we all do participate, not all of us, but a lot of our listeners in this. And it hasn't changed for like hundreds of years. So enough of the mystery, tell us about what is Green Tree Project.

Sam Walker:

Green Tree Project is a living potted Christmas tree rental company. Our clients go to our website, which is greentreeproject.net. They shop for a Christmas tree from the comfort of their cell phones. They schedule free in-home delivery. We bring that tree into their home, set it up, install it. After Christmas, we come back and pick the trees up, and then we donate them to community nonprofit to plate the trees around town. So your Christmas tree instead of becoming waste, actually becomes an asset to the environment.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. That's awesome. Obviously, a big problem, a big issue that people are thinking about all the time on how to be more responsible, more sustainable. That's really cool. I've heard you talk about this before, I love the story of where you got the idea, how you started down this path. Tell our listeners a little bit just how did you get inspired to create Green Tree Project?

Sam Walker:

We came at this from a really sideways direction. My husband and I didn't wake up one day and say, "Oh, let's start a strange Christmas tree business." My husband and I are actually therapeutic foster parents. That means we specialize in taking care of children who have severe and profound special needs. And a few years ago we got a child who was at the time, four years old and he had been through about seven foster homes in only six months. And he was a really dispirited kid. We did all of the therapeutic things that we were supposed to do, but we also decided that to just move the needle a little bit more for this boy, we wanted to have an over the top joyful Christmas for him.

And so we did all of the Christmas things. We go a really big, fresh cut tree. We decorated, we baked cookies. We had a ton of fun and it worked for a time. He was happy until he wasn't. We found him crying at the window one day and we weren't really sure why. We tried to comfort him by saying, "Hey, it's okay. Christmas will come back again." We thought maybe he didn't understand that this was a recurring thing. And he said, "No, it's not that I just thought you loved the tree." And he points outside at this dead tree at the curb.

And we said, "Yeah, buddy, we loved the tree. It's in all of our photos from Christmas and we sing Christmas carols that are talk about trees and we put our gifts under it and we drink our hot chocolate around it. It's part of our family for a few weeks. We totally love the tree. Yeah. We love the tree. Yes." And he says, "No, you threw it away." And we realized that in the eyes of this child, there's a real error there in what we say our beliefs are and what we were actually demonstrating to him, where we had assigned so much value and meaning to something and then discarded it. And worse where he had been welcomed and treated with so much value and joy and also discarded.

And as my husband and I had this just terrible gut check, where we just saw this gap in our beliefs and in our actions. We examined the market and realized that there weren't any Christmas tree options available in the market that did align with our values. And it's not like we went out that day and started a Green Tree Project, but that's the conversation that planted the seed for this business to grow.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's awesome. I love that story. You'd already identified like this problem that you were solving by just the way you lived in certain areas of your life recycling and whatever, all the many as we do to try to be responsible. But then you've got this little four-year-old boy that brings it all home. I love it. That's awesome.

Aaron Ackerman:

Maybe talk just a minute about, for people that celebrate Christmas and do bring some kind of tree into their house. There's different options. There's tree lots where you can go buy a tree and then throw it away like your story. There's fake trees. What's the difference? And from the sustainability standpoint, why is Green Tree Project a better option for that reason than some of the others?

Sam Walker:

Sure. There's three primary options outside of Green Tree Project that we can examine. There's artificial trees, then there's trees that you get from like a parking lot at a big box store that have been cut down and shipped in from another state. And then there's choose and cut Christmas tree farms where the trees have been grown locally and you drive out to a farm nearby and chopped down your tree and bring it home. Artificial trees are primarily manufactured overseas, particularly in China. They're made out of plastics. They typically new ones have a ton of technology built into them.

Artificial trees can be fairly sustainable if you use them for at least 17 to 21 years. The problem is that we know that most of Americans discard their artificial trees between six and 11 years after purchase. That's the problem with those.

Aaron Ackerman:

And then those go just to a landfill.

Sam Walker:

A landfill. Yeah. And they're plastic, of course, so they sit in the landfill for-

Aaron Ackerman:

100 years or whatever.

Sam Walker:

Yeah, thousands, right?

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah.

Sam Walker:

The second choice of course then is the fresh cut trees you get that are just sitting outside at a big box store that have been shipped in from another state. Those are going to be your noble furs, the traditional tree that a lot of people grew up having. That's what I had. Those trees are problematic primarily because of the trucking them in. While a Christmas tree is planted in the ground and growing, it retains a pound of carbon dioxide per foot, per year, while it's growing. So the actual growing of Christmas trees is super positive for the environment. We have no complaint with Christmas tree farms whatsoever.

The problem is when it gets cut down, it stops retaining that carbon dioxide, and when we start trucking it, then we have a negative environmental impact. Once that tree is thrown away and begins to decompose in the landfill, it releases all of that carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere. So everything that happens after the tree is cut down begins having a negative environmental impact. So that's going to be a less environmentally friendly option.

And then lastly, local choose and cut tree farms, this can be a pretty good option. You drive to a place near your home. You choose a tree that's can thrive in your own environment. You cut it down, especially if you can find a way to recycle that tree, such as in a mulching program, not throwing it away in the landfill where it'll decompose. Mulching programs that produce mulch, those trees don't necessarily, or the mulch doesn't necessarily decompose. It's used to at the top of your soil, so it's not exposed to all the chemical reactions in the landfill. That's going to be the most environmentally friendly option outside of a program like Green Tree Project.

Then we have Green Tree Project. Our trees are alive, they're still growing, so they're still retaining that pound of carbon dioxide per year, because after Christmas, our trees get to be planted in the ground here in our local community, where they grow and grow and grow for decades. The maximum height of most of the varieties of trees that we use is around 60 to 80 feet. So if you think of the cumulative environmental impact over several decades of our trees, it's just incredible. Especially, when you think of a family that returns to our service year after year, that's another tree that gets planted by that family every single year. That's how we gauge the environmental impact of what we're doing versus other options.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's great. You've got this whole scale of things ranging from really bad to pretty good, and then Green Tree is really the best. And then I would add on top of that, from the way you just described it's the most sustainable scenario. Plus for a lot of us who are really accustomed to this on-demand economy, if I don't want to go find a tree or buy a tree, I get on my phone, you bring it to me. It's hassle-free.

Sam Walker:

Hassle-free. We say that Green Tree Project stands for climate, community, convenience and Christmas. With that convenience piece being more important than people realize, with the last mile economy. We've got services that will deliver you your fast food in case you don't want to hit the drive through yourself, but it's really more than just the convenience piece. There are people with disabilities and an aging population of baby boomers. There's people who are bound to their bed, people who can't exit their home, who still want to participate in a Christmas tree tradition.

Green Tree Project brings that to them. They can order a tree from their phone, have it delivered and have it picked up. It's important to us that we're a really inclusive company.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. That's cool. So it's not just for lazy people like me, there's other really good use cases as well. And if I'm just being totally selfish, if you could deliver that tree in my house already lit and with ornaments on it, even better.

Sam Walker:

We won't do the ornaments. We will absolutely do the light.

Aaron Ackerman:

You'll light the... Okay, there we go.

Sam Walker:

Oh, yeah, we'll light the tree.

Aaron Ackerman:

Clearly, the holiday season is your peak time of year. You do a lot, if not most of your business. But you do some things else throughout the year. Is there anything you want to highlight there or?

Sam Walker:

Yeah. Our biggest off season service that we provide has to do with weddings, so we do living tree rentals for weddings. It's very on trend right now. At the royal wedding recently, there were trees up and down the aisle, so that was big for us as you can imagine. But we do living trees for weddings. We recently had a wedding where they rented six living olive trees, and it was a Tuscan-themed wedding and-

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow.

Sam Walker:

... the olive trees were beautiful and they really were just the perfect touch. And so we can do creative things like that. And the benefit to having a living tree as opposed to a silk tree is just what it says about you as a couple that, your love is living and growing and not artificial and perfectly manicured, but instead natural and beautiful, et cetera.

Aaron Ackerman:

Something real and yeah.

Sam Walker:

Yeah. That's our biggest off season business.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. Who else is doing this? Do you have competitors-

Sam Walker:

We do.

Aaron Ackerman:

... in your markets or in other markets?

Sam Walker:

In other markets, yes. The most successful version of this company exists in London, England. They're thriving. They offer a slightly different version of this. They don't do delivery, their clients come and pick up their trees and then return their trees. So it's a different model, but they do very well. We cheer each other on social media and I like to follow what they do. It's an interesting business. And then there are some similar businesses. There's one in Pennsylvania and there's two in Southern California that we are keeping an eye on. None of them that I'm aware of donate their trees after Christmas.

All of these other businesses retain their trees and rent out the same trees year after year. Green Tree Project stands alone in is unique in our dedication to the sustainability piece of what we're doing. We are on a mission to make the environment and our community better with planting the trees.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay, cool. You just went through, was it your third or?

Sam Walker:

Our third Christmas.

Aaron Ackerman:

Really your second full blown one, right? Or was-

Sam Walker:

Well, I guess. The first one we did was much smaller, but it felt full blown at the time.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. So you've been through three.

Sam Walker:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Obviously right now, I think you're pretty focused on your geographic market in Oklahoma city.

Sam Walker:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

What are the plans going forward as far as expanding your footprint and growth and scale?

Sam Walker:

Immediately on the horizon is our expansion into Tulsa. We have a big following in Tulsa. In fact, if we had the number of hard inquiries we received from Tulsa, so this Christmas, so messages through the website, emails, phone calls, Facebook messages, direct messages on Instagram. If each one of those hard inquiries was a sale, we would've had as many sales in Tulsa this year as we had in Oklahoma city.

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, wow.

Sam Walker:

Tulsa's ready for us.

Aaron Ackerman:

So you're ready to roll it out there.

Sam Walker:

We're coming to Tulsa. And then apart from our expansion of company stores, we will also be licensing the Green Tree Project model to environmentally friendly landscape companies around the United States.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay, cool. Lots of exciting things in the pipeline for you guys. I think I'm right on this. You tell me if I'm wrong, but you're a first time business owner.

Sam Walker:

Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. You've been in the corporate world, you've had jobs before this. But at some point when you guys kind of started this, you were juggling a job and trying to start and grow Green Tree Project. Then at some point you decided, "I'm all in. I'm going to quit my job."

Sam Walker:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

And you've got a house full of people you're trying to feed and everything, so what was that decision for you? Was that just, "Yep, I'm all in," it was a natural thing and then you never looked back? Was it scary? Just talk about that just a second.

Sam Walker:

Well, it's absolutely terrifying and it required a lot of faith in Green Tree Project. I don't see Green Tree Project as a business or an entity or an idea that exists inside of me, I see it as a thing that stands on its own. And so I had to have a lot of faith in this thing that we had created that if we kept working really hard at it and being strategic and pursuing the right mentors, that it would pay off and it would take care of us back. If we continue to take care of it, it'll take care of us back. Nevertheless, it was scary and it's been hard. It was absolutely not a seamless, easy transition to go from having an additional job to having just Green Tree Project.

And there have been times, especially in the first few months where I dug in my heels and I thought, "Wait, maybe I should just pick up one little side gig." There's a thing called goal diffusion. Are you familiar with the phrase? It's this idea that as you gain energy and momentum toward your big thing, people are attracted to your energy and momentum and they think like, "Wow, he or she is really... They're powerful. Look, they're moving. I need their energy and effort toward my goal." And they try to recruit you to their project.

They might offer you a job or contract or just try to get your help on what they're working on. They diffuse your goal because they're attracted to the energy and the effort that you're putting toward your goal, so they're recruiting you to their own goal. And some of those offers can be really appealing and exciting. Once I began really focusing on Green Tree Project, I've experienced a ton of goal diffusion that I've had to work hard to stay away from. And I think that's something that a lot of first time business owners might... It can be very seductive.

I think a lot of first time business owners maybe need to be aware of is out there is once you begin gaining that momentum, there's a lot of people who will want a piece of your momentum and a piece of your energy toward their own projects.

Aaron Ackerman:

No, that makes sense. Especially, you're a charismatic person. I think even our listeners can tell just listening that you and I were able to become friends really fast. And I think that's because-

Sam Walker:

Oh, thanks.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, I think that's because you've just got a charisma and just this dynamic aura that attracts people. So maybe your goals are diffused more than some of all artist, but that makes sense. I see what you're saying there. Along that same line, now you've been in this a few years. What advice would you give to somebody else who may be thinking about starting a business? They think they've got a great idea and they're where you were two, three, four years ago. What would be your advice to that person?

Sam Walker:

It's an interesting question, and when I look back about the advice that we would've benefited us is I wish someone had stopped us, stopped my husband and I, or stopped me and said, "Hey, you're starting a business." Because I think what we thought we were doing was solving a problem and didn't connect that to the fact that in doing so this would be a business. Because what's happened is we've we've done this thing and we've had to go backwards and back fill a lot of the hard skills we didn't have.

As you may know, I don't know a great deal about finance, numbers aren't my thing. And so we've had to go back and work really hard to fill in a lot of those gaps, because when you are the captain of your ship, you can't just shrug and try to be cute and be like, "Oh that's not my thing, I don't know it." Guess what? It's your business, you have to know it.

Aaron Ackerman:

It is your thing.

Sam Walker:

It's your thing now.

Aaron Ackerman:

It's all your thing.

Sam Walker:

And so what I wish the advice we'd gotten is that when you're starting a business, when you're solving a problem, when you're stepping into this world, you are accepting responsibility for the whole thing. And that as soon as someone gives you their money to solve this problem for them, you have a responsibility toward them. After that first Christmas, which it was just remarkable that people paid us money to do Christmas trees for them. The whole thing was amazing that this all worked out. After that first Christmas, we began taking pre-orders for the next Christmas. And it blew my mind that people were willing to pay for their Christmas trees 12 months in advance but they were, so we accepted all these pre-orders and my husband and I then realized, "Well, that means we're in this business for another 12 months." Doesn't it?

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. We can't get out of it now, so-

Sam Walker:

Yeah. We're-

Aaron Ackerman:

... we have to give all this money back.

Sam Walker:

We're we in it, we're in it for real. And that mindset, every time we had a transaction that it just surprised us again and again. People believe in what we're doing, they're entrusting us to solve a problem for them. And as frivolous as a Christmas tree may seem, to us it was deadly serious. Christmas trees are part of people's treasured Christmas traditions. It's something that they may have been doing the same way for decades. It's something that's very important and personal to them.

So whatever problem it is that you're solving or whatever business it is that you're embarking on, as soon as you have an employee or someone, a customer pays you money or as soon as you begin selling your thing to people, making promises or whatever it is, you've accepted responsibility for that whole thing including the information you don't yet know. We just thought we were solving a problem, we didn't realize we would be taking on this whole business and we'd be responsible for everything we didn't know yet.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's good advice.

Sam Walker:

It sounds so grim, but golly, there was a lot stuff we were going to have to research and learn really fast.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, sometimes it may be a blessing that you don't know everything then that you know now because you may go, "Oh this is too hard, we're not going to do it."

Sam Walker:

Yeah. We'll just keep cutting down trees.

Aaron Ackerman:

Something that you and I have talked about before, and I think it's really too bad that this is even a relevant question but female business owner, what challenges, roadblocks or speed bumps have you had to work through? Whether it's with vendors or customers or whoever just because you are a female.

Sam Walker:

The primary way that I've experienced bias being a female business owner has to do with the fact that I work in the ag industry. Tree farming to my knowledge hasn't changed a great deal in recent decades, and that includes the people who are managing that industry for the most part. I've encountered some wonderful people who operate tree farms, and I have encountered some people who felt very uncomfortable by my presence. Particularly because Green Tree Project is doing things differently and because I, a younger woman, I'm at the helm of Green Tree Project.

Some of the most frustrating things we've had to deal with is I go by Sam, not Samantha and so I'll be exchanging emails with a sales manager of a large commercial tree farm about quantities and pricing and I'll get a quote. And then I'll show up to collect trees and upon meeting that sales manager that price may increase by as much as 15%-

Aaron Ackerman:

Wow.

Sam Walker:

... in one instance because face-to-face, I'm not the person they thought I was over email.

Aaron Ackerman:

So they find out you're Samantha not Sam and their whole-

Sam Walker:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

... pricing. That's incredible to me.

Sam Walker:

It was upsetting at the time. It was very upsetting, and that happened back in the first year of operation. Locally now I'm known to everybody. I say everybody. I'm known to all of the commercial tree farms and we actually use a vendor who's not local anymore, they're in Tulsa. But that was particularly upsetting. Other instances have been not as dramatic as that, but we would go out and we'd tag trees at commercial tree farms that we were going to come back and pick up the next day. This is a common practice, they give you tape at the desk, you go and put tape on the trees that you want. You flag them, the trees you're going to come back and pick up. And we would go back the next day and our flagged trees would've been sold out from under us to male-operated landscaping businesses. And that has happened numerous times.

And I couldn't tell you if it's because those businesses are operated by of men or if it's because those are more traditional businesses versus our distinctly less traditional business. Small things, being asked where my husband is, being asked where my partner is. At one time I had my kids in the truck with me when I was picking up some trees and one of the guys at a tree farm noticed my kids were in the truck and he's like, "You've got kids?" And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "You're married?" And I said, "Well, yes. But-

Aaron Ackerman:

Why does that matter?

Sam Walker:

... also you don't have to be married to have kids, technically." And he's like, "I didn't realize all that. I can't believe your husband let you do all this."

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh my.

Sam Walker:

It was just offhand and he certainly wasn't in a management position at the tree farm, but it's a mindset thing. And I know that women who work outside the ag industry face similar issues, but the most bias I've encountered has been specifically in this agricultural area. So I'm looking forward to the day that Green Tree Project is a really large powerful company and we won't encounter that anymore.

Aaron Ackerman:

When those things would happen, how do you process that? Would you call it outright then? Does it fuel you as motivation? Or obviously you have daughters, right?

Sam Walker:

Oh, I do have daughters.

Aaron Ackerman:

So obviously something to model and impress upon your kids, and I'm trying to do the same thing. But how would you handle that or process those events?

Sam Walker:

It's funny just as an aside, I think it's almost more important to model this for my sons.

Aaron Ackerman:

Good point.

Sam Walker:

But neither here nor there. The one where the price went up by 15%, actually, all I remember about that is rage, I don't won't remember the outcome of that. All the other instances where the trees that I've tagged have been sold out from under me, I have gone inside and inquired about it. "I tagged those trees. Where did they go? Don't you think that that's wrong that they were sold out?" And I've pursued the conversation. Ultimately, there's nothing that can be done but I always feel like it's worth the follow-up because I think that meekly going away and striking about it is what people expect women to do. And then anytime those comments are made about, "Your husband lets you do this?" Or, "Where is your husband?" Or, "Where is your boss?" That's another one I enjoy.

"Where is your boss? Does he let you go out and... Why are you handling this all on your own?" I just like to say casually that I am the boss. This is my company. Or, "My husband is at home with our children." And I try to do it in a relaxed way with a smile because ultimately that conversation in those moments isn't going to change anybody's mindset. But I do think it's important to make sure that I claim my space and use my voice.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sam Walker:

You know what I mean?

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah.

Sam Walker:

I just say my piece calmly and then move on.

Aaron Ackerman:

Good. Good for you. You maybe alluded to this earlier but having gone through learning like you said, you had this problem you wanted to solve, but then you realized, "Oh my, this is really a business." So you're running a business. What skill, maybe looking back over the last three years do you see as really critical or maybe the most important thing for you to start and grow a business. Whether it was a skill you already had and it just flourished or so you had to develop? Maybe it's selling, maybe it's negotiating. What skill looking back that you go, "That was super important and whether I realized it or not, now I know"?

Sam Walker:

This is not really specific. Anticipating people's objections and speaking to them prior to people getting stuck on those objections, and so maybe that's a sales skill. I guess sales. If you can't do sales, you don't have a business. Well, I guess in sales, if you're selling something to a customer, if you can't do that then there's nothing else. But because our business is so non-traditional, and because we're selling it in the Midwest, being able to anticipate objections and sell despite those objections and just work with those has been the most important thing. Our entire sales strategy has to do with overcoming people's objections before they can even pass their lips. That's been the most thing.

And then a question you didn't ask but I think is important is, what is the most important trait someone could have? And that would be just great in tenacity, because it's so hard. And you have to be really willing to change your plan and be flexible and to take the hit and keep going.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yep, absolutely. I like that I was listening to a podcast the other day and I heard I think the sentiment that you're expressing put in a way I'd never heard it before. But it was saying that to be really successful really in any endeavor, you have to have the... See if I can get this right, the skin of a rhino. I think it was the spirit of an angel, but this kindness and this ability to really look outside yourself and be empathetic. But then that skin of a rhino, nothing is going to get to me, that grit and that grind.

Sam Walker:

I heard it, I think the same sentiment but put differently. And it was this idea that you want to treat everybody else like family, but never expect anyone else to treat you like family.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's good. I like it.

Sam Walker:

That's a philosophy that I've operated by like, "Well, I want to sell to someone like I really believe in this." I really believe in Green Tree Project and I think it will make people so happy. And so when I'm selling to someone it's really mostly just like, "Hey, I really think you're going to love this and I really think you should try it." And if someone has an objection or a concern or they're not happy with a product, we just take care of them like they're family and make it right or do whatever we have to do to fix the situation. That's how we treat everyone. And then I never ever expect anyone to treat me that way in return. And that's how you minimize hurt feelings, mitigate risk, reduce your exposure to any concern or reduce your exposure to, I don't want to say back-stabbing. Reduce your exposure to people taking advantage of you.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. Like I said at the beginning, you and I met really through the Thunder Launchpad, which is a local in Oklahoma business accelerator. It's been a year, I guess or something like that since you were in that program. Just curious, your experience there, where you're getting to be around other early-stage founders. You've got mentors and people that are in your corner either just cheering you on or really actively helping you and your business somehow. Was that a great experience? Is that something you would recommend for other early-stage startup type companies and-

Sam Walker:

Yeah, that's the greatest experience. No, the StitchCrew, the Thunder Launchpad has been the most concentrated period of development I've ever had for Green Tree Project. The mindset I had prior to being in that program was that I was the owner of a small business and the mindset I had upon exiting that program was that I'm the founder of a startup. And that is the only way that I can really encapsulate the transformative change that Green Tree Project experienced in those 12 weeks.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's awesome. I'm looking forward, Sam to just seeing how you grow this thing, all the great things that you're going to do. Like I said, I will be a customer, you can hold me to that. Coming down to the end of our time here, we've got a series of questions we ask all of our guests, so you're ready for that?

Sam Walker:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. What's the very first way you ever made money?

Sam Walker:

The very first way I ever made money, I'm sure it had something to do with tricking an elder brother out of something. I doubt it was all that honest.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right. Sibling trickery, I think that's in the Old Testament. That's as old as time, so very good. Okay. What would you be doing if you weren't running Green Tree Project right now?

Sam Walker:

I would be working in a social justice nonprofit.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. That doesn't surprise me. Just knowing a little bit about you, I really not surprised and that's awesome. So what would you like to go and tell your 20-year-old self? Now, for me and a lot of my guests, that was a long time ago. For you it wasn't all that long ago.

Sam Walker:

I don't know that you actually know how old I am.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. We can talk about that if you want to.

Sam Walker:

No, I'm not going to say, but people are always surprised at how old I actually am. When I was 20 years old, I was actually getting ready to move to Oklahoma.

Aaron Ackerman:

Where were you then?

Sam Walker:

Houston, Texas.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Sam Walker:

I would say don't do it, no. I would tell my 20-year-old self that... Oh man. I would probably tell my 20-year-old self to go ahead and pack a pair of rain boots for the move to Oklahoma.

Aaron Ackerman:

Pack a pair of rain boots. Okay.

Sam Walker:

Just go ahead and bring those rain boots on up from Houston. No, the night that I moved to Oklahoma City, it was during tornado season and it was one of those days and I had no idea what I was getting into. My parents dropped me off at my apartment with a bunch of boxes of stuff and I was moving into some complex at 120-second Penn. And there was this wild hail storm that knocked out every single north-facing window in the entire complex.

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, wow. So it was raining inside.

Sam Walker:

I literally called them crying to come pick me. I was like, "Y'all got to come back to Oklahoma and get me." So I don't know what I'd tell my 20-year-old self, but it would be something about like, "Hey, it's going to be okay. The weather in Oklahoma is that bad but you'll make it. It's going to be all right."

Aaron Ackerman:

That's fair. At some point you need another business idea to start, I'm quite certain the inventor and the manufacturer of umbrellas has never lived in Oklahoma.

Sam Walker:

Yeah, they're useless here.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah.

Sam Walker:

Literally pointless.

Aaron Ackerman:

I really am looking forward to somebody creating an Oklahoma umbrella that doesn't just flip upside down and tear in half right away, so.

Sam Walker:

An Oklahoma umbrella.

Aaron Ackerman:

It's probably not unique to Oklahoma, there's other states with wind and rain, but yeah, most umbrellas are no match for an Oklahoma rainstorm.

Sam Walker:

I think an Oklahoma umbrella is you just stay inside.

Aaron Ackerman:

Stay inside, it's a rough. Yeah, exactly. And even that with your north-facing windows, you may not be completely safe. Okay. Let's see. Next question. If your life to this point, all your experiences, the events that have led you from where you are to where you are were the content for a book, this is a story of your life. What would your book be called?

Sam Walker:

My book would be called Life is What You Make It: Any Day Could Be Taco Tuesday.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Sam Walker:

Break all the rules.

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, I love it. Any day can be Taco Tuesday.

Sam Walker:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Just Taco Tuesday.

Sam Walker:

You don't have to follow their rules.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yep. I like it. For sure.

Sam Walker:

Yeah. Just inspirational rebel rousing tacos, but gently so. It's just tacos, you don't have to go hurting people to be a rebel.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's perfect.

Sam Walker:

Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

You're a non-conventional thinker, I love it.

Sam Walker:

Yeah, that's what we do.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yesterday, little quick side story here. I got to go to a lunch-on where the CFO of Walmart was speaking and he's really cool. He's talking about how fast everything changes and Amazon is just completely turned upside down the retail world. Anyway really interesting statistics and everything that he was putting out there. And then he showed a video clip of Sam Walton from 35 years ago talking about... I think he was talking to a group of store managers and he was saying, "You've got people in your stores that are the troublemakers. They're always coming to you with these crazy ideas and they're the mavericks and they irritate you. But these are the people you need to make sure we hang on to. We don't want them to leave Walmart. They're the ones that change the world." And I see you that way, but that's like any day can be Taco Tuesday.

Sam Walker:

You see me as a trouble-making employee at Walmart?

Aaron Ackerman:

I see you as a change agent and a maverick or a trouble-making employee. It could go either way really.

Sam Walker:

Well, I guess-

Aaron Ackerman:

It's a fine line to be honest.

Sam Walker:

... if Green Tree Project fails, I guess I know my pathway forward.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right. Yeah, I didn't think you going to take that that way.

Sam Walker:

I won't come knocking at the door at HoganTaylor.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. Last question. What is the best advice that you've ever received?

Sam Walker:

The best advice I ever received came to me from a mentor who is also connected to StitchCrew. He told me to stop stopping, which I've interpreted a number of different ways in a number of different situations. It's a Swiss army knife piece of advice, but what I think he mostly means by it is that when you hesitate or when you are having decision paralysis or when you just become tired of your business, the thing that prevents you from moving forward is literally just your decision to stop. And if you just choose to keep moving forward, everything else will follow. The energy will follow, the mindset.

If you can continue to put one foot in front of another and if you can just make that small choice that, "Yes, I will continue to move forward on this business," everything else can follow that. And so to stop stopping is the best advice I'd ever received.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's good stuff. Well, Sam, you got through those five questions, great job. I'm so proud of you. I love what you're doing at Green Tree Project. I can't wait to see where you go with that. Thank you for taking the time to join me on the show.

Sam Walker:

Thank you for having me. This has been so fun. I love catching up with you.

Aaron Ackerman:

Good. For listeners out there that maybe haven't heard of Green Tree Project and they want to know more, where can they go to go order a tree or to find out more about what you guys are doing?

Sam Walker:

greentreeproject.net is the website and we're very active on Facebook and Instagram too, Green Tree Project.

Aaron Ackerman:

Awesome. Sam, it was awesome. You did great. Thank you so much.

Sam Walker:

Thank you.

Aaron Ackerman:

And that's all for this episode of How That Happened. Thank you for listening. Be sure to visit howthathappened.com for show notes and additional episodes. You can also subscribe to our show on iTunes, Google Play or Stitcher. This content is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. Copyright 2020 HoganTaylor, LLP. All rights reserved. To view the HoganTaylor general terms and conditions, visit www.hogantaylor.com.