12. Phil Lancaster - Mammoth Energy Services

Phil Lancaster:

So you have to act or play like you're a bigger company, but at the same time you're wearing a lot of the hats. The categories that I came up with that I feel like are important that you have to spend time on each are fitness, friends, family, finance, and faith. Basically it's a balance of life.

Aaron Ackerman:

From HoganTaylor, I'm Aaron Ackerman. And this is How That Happened, a business and innovation success podcast. On each episode of the show, we sit down with business and community leaders behind thriving organizations to learn how business and innovation success actually happens.

Well, I'm really excited about my guest today. Joining me on the podcast is Phil Lancaster and excited to talk to Phil. I know our listeners will get a lot out of it too. Phil, thanks for joining me today.

Phil Lancaster:

Yeah, thanks for inviting me.

Aaron Ackerman:

So just a little bit about Phil's background. Phil has been working with a hedge fund, Wexford Capital for the past 14 or so years and worked with over 20 startups in various roles, including CEO, board member, president, several different roles and business development, all kinds of things, and has been part of a couple of large exits. And I had the privilege of working with Phil for about two and a half or three years and learned a lot in that time. And I think Phil and I go back probably, I don't know, seven or eight years, we first met.

Phil Lancaster:

That's about right. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

So anyway, thanks Phil for joining. Just want to talk a little bit about business and leadership and some of your experiences, but maybe a good place to start would just be, in a nutshell, how did you get here? What was your path to becoming a CEO and working for a hedge fund?

Phil Lancaster:

Well, initially I came over here to play tennis in a college environment and then played a little professional. And then from there I gravitated into the business side of things. Basically started as a tennis coach, got to know some fairly entrepreneurial people and followed them. And the next thing is I wanted to get involved in some of those entrepreneurial opportunities. And so I'd did. And from that kind of led into the next thing was to get involved with management or hedge fund type opportunities. And that kind of led me into this with Wexford and starting companies, maturing them, exiting, and then starting again. And that's basically what I've been doing the last 14, 15 years.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Interesting. And so I had, as I mentioned, the privilege of working with you on one of those startups and it was a really, really cool experience. I think I joined you basically almost from the beginning. We had no or very little revenue and built that from just a yard full of equipment to a real company that ended up going public. Just let me ask you kind of in general terms, so starting something and growing it, selling it or whatever, what is one of the most challenging things about just starting at that ground zero level and trying to build customer base, build a team? If you had to pinpoint the hardest thing about a startup, what would you say that is?

Phil Lancaster:

I think what happens is you're limited in resources. So you have to act or play like you're a bigger company, but at the same time you're wearing a lot of the hats. My bucket's always thrown into three categories: sales, operation, and accounting. You may only have one person in sales or you may be the only salesman. In some organizations, we start off with three employees and finish up with a couple thousand. But initially I think the difficulty is getting used to the fact that you're your very limited at the beginning and you're wearing a lot of hats is probably.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's good. Yeah. And having to make a little go a long way.

Phil Lancaster:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Aaron Ackerman:

I remember in those early days coming in the morning, and if the equipment was in the yard, I was already kind of dejected and sad. And if it was all gone, I was really happy, because I knew it was out working. And so kind of the rise and fall of just every day being a little bit of an adventure in its own is unique in a lot of ways.

Phil Lancaster:

That's for sure. And I also think, because I've, in the last 20 years, has been more involved in the oil and gas business and there seems to be extreme highs and extreme lows. So you've got to be prepared for both parts will happen at some stage.

Aaron Ackerman:

So one of the things that I think you're particularly really good at is building a team. And so when you get that startup and you're employee number one, you're going to start building your team. Like you said, sales, operations, accounting. What's your philosophy to building a team. And certainly every hire's not perfect. You have to kind of hit reset occasionally. But you've had a lot of success at building high performing teams. I know that's not just luck. What is your approach and how do you go about building a team? What do you look for, certain qualities? How do you think about that?

Phil Lancaster:

Well, I think a little bit of that stems back to the playing days at a competitive level at a professional sport. And so there's some certain qualities that you look for, and one of those is effort, typically. Doesn't necessarily mean you're the best athlete, but that person that continues to keep grinding away. So I think as I look at each of the candidates that I'm a getting in bed with, you may say, I always look to see if they got that quality that are willing to take, like you said, the equipment's all out of the equipment's all in and just deal with that on a day to day basis. But I think probably the other thing that I look at is a blend of personalities and a blend of age. I think every different demographic... As far as age goes, everyone brings a different quality. And I think that's important to build a character inside your company that's made up of all different ages.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. And I saw that first hand. You kind of had that mix of really experienced people and new young professionals that brought a lot of energy and kind of exuberance to the team. You know, you mentioned starting in tennis and you made some contacts and friends through coaching that led to business opportunities. What I hear you saying is relationships. And doing these startups, you've done them over and over again, a lot of times you're taking some of the same team members and starting over again with some of the same people. I know you've got people you're working with now that you've worked with on several, maybe 10, 12 different companies before.

Talk a little bit about just relationships, how important that is to you. I think, you can tell me if this is right or wrong, but I see you sort of blending business relationships. You don't go to work and then you have your home friends. You've got a real integrated life where you have people that you work with who are also friends outside of work. Talk a little bit about relationships and how that's shaped your career and how you kind of mentor people in that way as well.

Phil Lancaster:

Yeah. I think it probably goes back to where originally I'm from, is a small town in the middle of Australia. So not a lot of population. So whether you like the people in the town or not, you live with them for the rest of your life. And I've found that when we, as a family, Irene and I came over to the US, we really didn't have any family. And so work became our family. And over the years, I think that's permeated inside of the job, is the fact that the people that I trust and the people I work with invariably end up becoming basically our family, if that makes any sense.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, no, it does, absolutely. Yeah, so one of the things we talk about a lot on our podcast is innovation. And a lot of times that's around technology and things like that. You've been in the energy industry for a while. You've gone through several cycles. Energy industry is known for being very innovative technologically, as far as horizontal drilling and lots of in-the-field technology innovations. And we've got some new things coming in now that are really gaining more of a market share than in the past, like wind energy, battery energy, other kind of sustainable types things. But what do you see in the market right now as far as some big disruptive innovations that are in the works, or that may be coming down the pipe that could have a real impact on the way we create and consume energy?

Phil Lancaster:

Yeah, I would say political environment right now is very difficult for us, because we're certainly not the flavor of the month when it comes to Washington and for that matter anywhere around the country. So I think that's a fairly large headwind that we are having to deal with. I think one of the things that have really disrupted our business over the last 10 years is that we've gotten so good at improving our situation, whether it's drilling or completions or geology or whatever part that you're involved in, is that it's changing at such a rapid rate that the small guy that would start a business, and his equipment would be good for three to five years, is outdated within six to twelve months.

And so the checkbook has to be a little larger at the moment to be able to keep up with those metrics that the EMPs are looking for to make adjustments. Whether it's an electric frac spread versus a dual fuel versus a regular frac spread that we dealt with maybe five or six years ago. So I think what happens, technology has really put a lot of pressure on our industry, getting it out the ground, and also servicing, if that makes any sense.

Aaron Ackerman:

Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. So one thing that I noticed, and I see this with my clients still today, is that as advanced as the energy sector is technologically in the field, sometimes the back office processes are lagging behind even other industries. Why do you think that is? Is it just kind of tradition? Is it the fact that a lot of these operations are in remote places and maybe there's less access to high speed internet?I've always kind of wondered. We can come up with amazing technology to get minerals out of the ground, but we're shuffling a lot of paper around and tickets and things in the back office.

Phil Lancaster:

I think a little bit of that is that, kind of like our relationship, a lot of these startups start very small and so it's all paper related, maybe QuickBooks, whatever it is. And if you go through a boom cycle, your business could be five or tenfold within a 12-month period. And you're always playing catch up. And sometimes the back office has a tendency never catch up.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's a good point. Well, one thing I want to talk about is a project that Phil's been really working on in his head for a long time. In fact, I can remember maybe the first time we met, or the second time we met, you were interviewing me and I'm writing down everything you're saying, and you talked about the five Fs. I want you to kind of tell about the five Fs. Phil has recently written a book about time management and this philosophy that he's had for a long time about balance. So Phil, just maybe first off for our listeners, what are the five Fs?

Phil Lancaster:

Well, there's five of these... Basically it's a balance of life. And typically, now that I'm getting down in years, I had an opportunity to see some of the best athletes in the world and some of the best businessmen in the world. And you think they've got everything under control, but they don't really have a balanced life like you would think they do, even though, as you see them on TV or whatever, you think they've really got everything together. But the categories that I came up with that I feel like are important that you have to spend time on each are fitness, friends, family, finance, and faith. And the typical situation particularly probably 5 to 20 years ago was you would focus on your fitness or you would focus on your finance. And unfortunately some of the other parts of those kind of got pushed to the side.

And the next thing is you may have achieved your financial goals or your faith or your friends, but unfortunately you lost out in some of the other categories. And so I think what bought it to me is that I was very much involved with probably some of the best players in the world, and also involved for many years in country clubs, where supposedly they're the social affluent people that everyone look up to. And then even in the business world with the industries that I've been involved with. And so I've seen a constant theme. And of course my three kids all played college tennis. So with all their friends and college friends, I think I've had a chance to really witness, it really doesn't matter who you are, if you don't focus on all five of those, you're probably going to have some issues in some categories.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. I mean I know you were talking to me about the five Fs seven, eight years ago. How long has that been your philosophy that you kind of had formulated into that family, friends, fitness context?

Phil Lancaster:

Well, I think a little bit of it was I've always been fairly goal-oriented, back in the days when I went to college and tennis-related or whatever, because you had rankings. And so you focused on what your ranking was. But when when the kids came along, we set up goal setting for them. And my wife is very, very much a family person. And of course I would've been focused more on the fitness and the finances and some of that. And she basically smoothed out the edges and made it aware of how important all those categories are. And so we tried to carry that through with our kids with whatever they were doing, and that's pretty much how it all started.

Aaron Ackerman:

I've got this book right here, Phil, that you wrote it's called Balancing Act. I mean, maybe it's better for you to talk about it. It's really kind of a hands-on workbook more than just a book that you would read, like a self-help book or whatever. It's very kind of action-oriented. It's meant to be written in and notes taken, right? Is that kind of the approach?

Phil Lancaster:

Right. Well, the way it came about is that basically my kids insisted that I do this because I've mentored a lot of people, a lot of their friends, and they suggested that this would be something that I really need to do and just put it on paper and carry it through. So what happened was one of my youngest, her friends out of Dallas, who went to [Ersland 00:18:09] together, she's in the marketing business and she was out of a job. And so she was actually having some social issues, some issues in her life. And so we teamed up together and she basically took my thoughts, put it into this workbook. We didn't want it to be a book. We wanted it to be a workbook that you pull out once a year and you set up something on a time management standpoint, and you can pull it out each year and look at it.

And so she was really the catalyst of putting the presentation together. She just took the information I gave her. She at that point was 25. And of course at that point I was 60. So you kind of got a balance of both the age situation again, of what I was thinking was important is probably not as important as what she was thinking. And so I think it also helps really, irregardless of your age, I think you can utilize it.

Aaron Ackerman:

So, yeah. I went through the whole book, Phil. And when you first told me that you were going to do this, I was really excited about it, because I always, from that first time when I was writing notes and you told me about the philosophy, I liked it. It made sense. And a lot of times the things that impact us the most aren't necessarily rocket science, but somebody distills it into a framework that's understandable, that you can really latch onto and act on. So I've been excited about it since you first told me about the project.

Just going through here, a couple of things I'll point out that particularly stuck out to me, and you can comment on if you want. But one of the ideas or things you talk about is... Well, maybe I should back up. The workbook kind of walks you through the premise that you've only got so many hours. Everybody's got the same amount of time, whether you're a billionaire or homeless, that is a nonrenewable resource. And so I love the idea of really being intentional with our time.

And yeah, so you kind of go through this formula that in any week you've got 168 hours, and you sleep eight hours a night, and you kind of allow for a few hours of just nothing. And that gives you a hundred hours that you have during the week to play with. And so it kind of walks through balancing all the different areas. One of the things I really liked was you talk a little bit about multitasking, not in the sense that we talk about it sometimes today, about trying to do multiple things at once, which is really a misnomer. But what you talk about is combining two or more of the Fs at one time.

And you give a cool example of that. If you want to ride a bike, and that's part of your fitness, and you also have a, I think a friend or your brother or somebody was your example, that you want to spend more time with that would be part of family or friends, that you take your brother or your friend and go ride bikes together. And you're doing two Fs at once. And I've seen you do that. I even alluded to it before, that you have work friends, but they're also part of your life in other areas. When did you kind of figure that out or have you always been good at just sort of decompartmentalizing the parts of your life and combining them so that you have kind of multiple, maximum impact?

Phil Lancaster:

I think it just evolved over time. I don't think it was anything magical that came to my mind. But once I started trying to set goals in each of those categories, you were limited in an amount of time. And so in order to accomplish those goals, whether you had three or four in each category, I had to cross over in order to accomplish the goals. And so, for example, we work out in a trainer four times a week, but I work out with different people. So I hang with some of the friends while we're working out. So I accomplish the fitness goal while I'm at the same time catching up with friends, and invariably business as well. So that's kind of where it came about. It's very difficult to accomplish a balance on all five categories if you don't try to do one event that accomplishes two or three of those categories.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, no I love that. And again, it seems really kind of simple and obvious, but so many of us are not good at that. We kind of compartmentalize family in one area and friends in another and our faith in another and work, et cetera. You know, another thing, Phil, I'll ask you about that I really loved going through the workbook was, you've got a quote in here attributed to an anonymous source, but, "Don't let perfection become procrastination." And it kind of made me think of the Nike slogan, "Just do it," or some other things like that. A lot of people may have a personality where they don't want to make a mistake, they want everything to always be perfect. And that can hold us back from doing something that could really be exciting or make a huge impact on our life. So where did that come from for you? Was there-

Phil Lancaster:

Well, I think where that came is that each year I set my goals in each department, and usually it's somewhere between three and five. And I've been doing it a long time, but I think what people don't realize is that a lot of these categories, the same goal never gets accomplished, so I have to push it into the next year, and that's okay. And I think a lot of people feel like if they set a goal, they've got to accomplish it. And my point is that goal may be a little too limiting or maybe a little overzealous. And part of goal setting is you get better and better at it the more you do. And so with me, I don't have a problem if I don't achieve something in 2019, that it pushes into 2020, but it's always there.

And writing this book was a perfect example, that it was in my goal setting for at least four years before I actually did something about it. So the more you do the goal setting and the more put in the categories, and the more you don't beat yourself up, it actually becomes quite an enjoyable... And I review mine every quarter, because typically you forget.

Aaron Ackerman:

Right. Things change.

Phil Lancaster:

And by reviewing it every quarter. You're like, "Oh, I haven't even started on that one." But I think it just... You actually have a good relationship with the goal setting as opposed to feeling the pressure of not accomplishing something.

Aaron Ackerman:

So I know your kids kind of prompted you to write the book. Who did you write the book for? Did you have anybody or any group of people in mind as you were going through this thinking, "This is who I really want to reach with this book"?

Phil Lancaster:

Yeah. It's funny. I did a lot of it for a long time, whether I was involved in teaching kids tennis. I've been probably a part of 50 kids that end up playing college tennis. And so you're a big part of their life because you see them a lot. So I think instinctively, I was doing a lot of this, but it wasn't tightened up. And now I use it for employees. Sometimes we have some employees that aren't doing quite so well outside of their work, and this is a great vehicle to use, to go through it with them. As is, my kids still have a lot... They're still very young and so a lot of their peers are now getting married and having kids. And so it's one of those things that it's a good vehicle for them. So I'm using it, very much involved with everything I'm doing in my life, whether it's with my family or with people I work with.

Aaron Ackerman:

So if we've got listeners that are interested in the workbook themselves, can they just get it on Amazon? How do you get ahold of a copy of the book?

Phil Lancaster:

They could go on Amazon or they can just contact me if they're interested and I'll just send them out a book.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay.

Phil Lancaster:

Yeah. So...

Aaron Ackerman:

So what's next for the book? Have you got any other plans on how to expand the project or are you going to anything else with it at this point?

Phil Lancaster:

You know, that's a good question. Because when I finished the book, Stephanie who wrote the book for me, who works in New York and is big time in marketing, and she wanted to start up the website and really become aggressive. And I kind of shut it all down, because I felt like, "Okay, I've accomplished, I need a breather." And so really the last 6 to 12 months, I've only been using it inside my close group. But going forward, I'm affiliated with a small little community service called First Serve here in Oklahoma City. It's for underprivileged kids. And so we are introducing goal setting for the kids to help them establish skills before they even go off to college. So that is something we started. And then I think year I will become a little more aggressive on maybe becoming a little more detailed on pushing it out to people outside my own environment.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's awesome. I love the way that you're using it to really just kind of bless and benefit other people, whether they're wealthy or in an underserved population. That's awesome. So the five F's: fitness friends, family, finance, and faith. Congrats on getting this project done and I'm excited to see what you do with it next. And thanks for sharing it with me way back when. It's helped me even before you kind of formalized it into this workbook. So Phil, kind of coming down to the end of our time here, I always end with kind of a set of questions with guests of the podcast. And so-

Phil Lancaster:

Uh oh.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yep, I'm going to put you on the hot seat if you're ready.

Phil Lancaster:

Okay.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. So what was the very first way you ever made money?

Phil Lancaster:

I think it was back in our small town in Australia, I was about seven. And my mother let me have a little area in the garden. So I started growing silverbeet. And we used to live on the highway and I used to put it out in a wheelbarrow and sell it to people driving past. That's probably my first one, when I was about seven. The other one I did at the same time was collecting beer bottles. I used to get half a cent for a beer bottle. I used to sell.. My parents weren't overly excited about all the beer bottles in the backyard. But that was probably the two biggies.

Aaron Ackerman:

So silverbeet and beer bottles.

Phil Lancaster:

Beer bottles and silverbeet.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right, that's unique. I got to be honest, I don't know what silverbeet is. Is that a vegetable? Or...

Phil Lancaster:

Yeah, it's like a vegetable, yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. Yeah. That's good. Okay. What would you be doing if you weren't working with Wexford doing startups right now? What other thing might you be doing?

Phil Lancaster:

Well, at some stage I guess all that comes to an end. And so at the moment I'm fairly involved in my own investments and so that'll probably take more of a priority in the future. But I really do like starting and creating things. And I am somewhat involved with my kids and their spouses, involved in getting some things underway for them. So I think that's probably where I'll focus most of my time.

Aaron Ackerman:

I know you were, I shouldn't say were, you probably still are, but really accomplished tennis player. Did you have thoughts about making a career out of playing on a pro circuit? Or I know you were teaching and you were a club pro at one point in time. Was that something you were really working towards?

Phil Lancaster:

Well, I actually, from a small town you're limited in your opportunities, but did get the opportunity to play at a fairly high level. Went and played college, played pro. And I was involved in tennis before I got involved in oil and gas business for over 20 years. And so I'm still through this First Serve, still somewhat involved. And I kind of like that part now where I'm helping kids, and that's probably the area I'll continue to stay in.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. Good deal. So what would you like to go back and tell your 20-year-old self?

Phil Lancaster:

I probably would say, "Calm down a little bit." I was like a bull in a China shop. I was taken the world by storm and probably could have gone a little slower and might have made some better decisions back in the twenties. But that's probably what I would do.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Probably a lot of people could say that. I think a lot of us mellow a little bit over time. This question's based on the premise that all of our life, all of our experiences, everything we've done and places we've lived, people we've interacted with, all of that is the content for a book, kind of a biography of your life. What would the name of your biography be?

Phil Lancaster:

Wow. Is this the name I want it to be? Or is this the name it probably will be?

Aaron Ackerman:

Your choice. Well I'll give it a name too, but this is what you want to name it.

Phil Lancaster:

I would say that Family and Integrity is What Your Report Card Is.

Aaron Ackerman:

Hmm. Yeah. Well, and you know, you kind of have it, right? Not that the five Fs is a autobiography, but it definitely is part of the...

Phil Lancaster:

I don't know whether I've got it, but at least I'm trying to work on it. How about that?

Aaron Ackerman:

All right. Last one. What is the best advice you've ever been given?

Phil Lancaster:

I think probably, "True to yourself." It's getting a little philosophical here, but that's probably the one thing.

Aaron Ackerman:

Was there one person you remember that gave you that advice or was it sort of a common theme occasionally?

Phil Lancaster:

Well, it has got me in a lot of trouble, I might tell you. But I think that's probably permeated from my parents. As I said, you're in a small town, everyone knows you. They know who you are anyway, so you tend to be true to yourself because you can't tell someone... That town you got a population of 2000 people. They know you pretty well anyway. And I think I've carried that through. But you do, as the more successful you get, it's harder to stick to that line.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, that wasn't too bad. Those five questions, you did good.

Phil Lancaster:

I don't know whether I did good but I answered them. How about that?

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, Phil, thanks for the time today. I know you've got a lot going on. I appreciate you making time to do this with me. And also, just on a personal note, I mean, even though the time we worked together was kind of short in the scheme of things, I learned a lot. And so I have a lot of gratitude for the things that you taught me when we were working together. And I appreciate that as well.

Phil Lancaster:

Well, I've enjoyed spending my time with you. I've always categorized myself as a bit of a leach, that once I become a friend with someone, unfortunately you've got me for life.

Aaron Ackerman:

Well, that's good. I'll take it. If anybody wanted to reach out to you about the book, are you on social media or what would be the best way for somebody to find you out in the world?

Phil Lancaster:

They could probably email me at my home email, which is plancaster6@cox.net.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay, cool. And we'll put that in the show notes too, so that's really kind of you. And thanks again for this project, the book. I think it's a great deal. And I know a lot of people, their lives will be improved if they really follow the workbook and take it seriously like you've done. Phil, thanks a lot. It's been fun. I appreciate you, man.

Phil Lancaster:

Okay. Thank you.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right. Thanks.

Phil Lancaster:

Bye.

Aaron Ackerman:

And that's all for this episode of How That Happened. Thank you for listening. Be sure to visit howthathappened.com for show notes and additional episodes. You can also subscribe to our show on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. This content is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. Copyright 2019 HoganTaylor LLP. All rights reserved. To view the HoganTaylor general terms and conditions visit www.hogantaylor.com.