23. Ken Miller - Former Oklahoma State Senator and Treasurer

Ken Miller:

I felt like I grew as a person during my service and really it was... I'm one that's been through too much formal education probably, but the best education I ever had was serving in the legislature. Again, it was just a really rewarding experience. I really wish more people thought they could do it because they can. I really think the more people get involved either as an office holder or just by helping office holders like you did Aaron, I think there'd be a little bit more confidence in trust in our system of governance.

Aaron Ackerman:

From HoganTaylor, I'm Aaron Ackerman. This is How That Happened. A business and innovation success podcast. On each episode of the show, we sit down with business and community leaders behind thriving organizations to learn how business and innovation success actually happens. Welcome to another episode of how that happened. My guest today is Ken Miller. Ken, thank you for taking time today to be on the show.

Ken Miller:

You bet.

Aaron Ackerman:

Quick bio for Ken. Many of our listeners will recognize Ken's name, but Ken got an undergraduate degree in economics and then got an MBA at Pepperdine university in Malibu, California got a PhD in economics at OU and has had a really interesting career. He spent several years as a state representative in Oklahoma. After that, several years, about eight years I guess, as the state treasurer for Oklahoma. Just recently a little over a year ago, left the capital and joined OGNE as their vice president of Legislative and Regulatory Affairs. Also, he's been a professor of economics at Oklahoma Christian University for the better part of the last 20 years. Did I get all that about right Ken?

Ken Miller:

Yeah. Sounds good.

Aaron Ackerman:

Cool. Ken and I go back quite a ways. I was trying to remember really Ken, when we first met and it might have been on campus at Oklahoma Christian. Or may maybe just after I graduated from college, but we go back at least close to 20 years, I would say.

Ken Miller:

Yeah, we do. Of course I talked to you into being campaign treasurer some years ago.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's right.

Ken Miller:

Got you and pulled you into that.

Aaron Ackerman:

Which was a blast. I learned a lot, had fun. That was your first campaign for the state rep. Was it District 81? Is that what it was?

Ken Miller:

Oh gosh, not that long ago. It was...

Aaron Ackerman:

No. I was saying the district number.

Ken Miller:

Oh yeah. District 81. Okay. I thought you were giving me an extra decade there.

Aaron Ackerman:

No, no, no. That was fun. Yeah, we worked together in that capacity and really that was your first, I think, as far as I know your first foray into politics. As my introduction into the world of campaign finance as well.

Ken Miller:

Into that dark world.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's right. You've had such an interesting career and this is a really interest time we're living through right now. Really, I should have already said this, but first and foremost, I just hope that you and those close to you can, are safe and healthy and managing through what is really a historical time in our nation and really our world history.

Ken Miller:

Yeah. So far good on the health front and just been hunkered down like everybody else. I need a haircut like everybody else. It is a really challenging time and there's lots of economic hardship but it is encouraging to see people helping people. OGNE have been proud to work with Meals on Wheels and partner with St. Luke's on getting restaurants back in the game by preparing meals for those in need and using the Meals on Wheels distribution hub to get those out. That's just one small example of so many are going on in our state and our country and our world of people helping people. It's really tough, really tough times, but it's also a time that's brought people together. We're seeing some of the better sides of society, I think.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's a great point. You never wish these things to happen, but it is such a rich experience to just be part of and to witness people really stepping up in a big way and helping out. A lot of our listeners are in Oklahoma, for people that have lived in Oklahoma a long time, we've seen that spirit through some pretty terrible tornadoes. Of course the [inaudible 00:05:00] bombing and that stuff is tragic and heartbreaking. But then there's always these great stories and heroic efforts by just normal people working to lift up a community. That is something to behold and to be a part of. It's a good thing to remember in times like this. How can we help and just to recognize and appreciate people that are doing really awesome stuff.

Let's go back to the beginning of, at least of your political career. I was trying to think back, I'm not sure that I've ever asked you some of these questions or I don't really know the answers. When did you first become interested in politics? Or when did you know that you wanted to run for a political office? Was that something later in life? Was it something you had an ambition towards or aspired to even as a kiddo? How did that come around for you?

Ken Miller:

I think it was in some ways it was by chance.I'll tell you how. A friend of ours, Mike Osborn. You know Mike back from Oklahoma Christian. Mike was working in the Keating administration as a, I think he was the deputy chief of staff for Frank Keating back in the day. He left there to go be the assistant to the president of Oklahoma Christian University. That's Kevin Jacobs. I had just gotten to Oklahoma Christian, teaching there and then going to school at OU working on my PhD and the governor's office called Mike to ask if he could think of anybody that Mike could serve in this capacity as the Chairman of the Legislative Compensation Board.

Mike recommended me and turned my name into governor Keating and then did a phone interview. All of a sudden I'd been in the state. I don't know some period of months hardly, maybe a year, year and a half. Then I was all of a sudden the Chair of Legislative Compensation Board, which sets the salaries for those in legislative service to the state. In that role, I met Ray Von who was also on the board of Oklahoma Christian University. He was the state representative from District 81. He was turning out of office. One thing led to another, the people I had gotten to meet inside the capital. Then of course, Ray encouraged me to run, supported my run and helped me be successful in that first election back in, was that 2004, I believe. 2004.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. I'd forgotten about that. Prior to running for state rep, you had been appointed to, or whatever the terminology is, but you'd been brought on to that compensation committee. You were in the wheels of government to some respect before you ran for an elected officer.

Ken Miller:

Yeah, of course it was a volunteer position as Chair of the Legislative Compensation Board. It gave me an exposure to the opportunity to serve. Then of course it gave me the opportunity to meet people who could wet that whistle and help me learn how to run for office. Then of course be an office holder. My mother was involved in politics behind the scenes working as campaign managers back when I was growing up. I had some exposure to it from the volunteer side, but it certainly never as a candidate. I think it happened by chance, but certainly it was a very rewarding period of my life. I encourage it. I encourage more people to get involved in any capacity, but certainly running for office would be a great way to serve.

I think a lot of times people think that those kinds of roles are for other people. What you quickly learn is that everybody there is really just like you, everybody puts their pants on one leg at a time and wakes up with funny hair and bad breath. Some people see it a chance and take a chance. That's really all it is, is seeing the chance and taking the chance to get involved and be in public service. I really wish more people thought they could do it because they can. I really think the more people get involved either as an office holder or just by helping office holders like you did Aaron. I think there'd be a little bit more confidence in trust in our system of governance.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's a good commentary. You had some exposure even as a kid with your mom, and then once you got to Oklahoma. Once you got in, you were elected, you got into the state house. I don't know if you know what your expectations were going in. But what was maybe something that was a big surprise or shocked you or you didn't anticipate? What was the most surprising thing you learned as you started working as a legislator in the state capital?

I really think that the most surprising thing is that it is how the people that are there really are trying to make a difference and really are trying to do good things for the constituents that they serve. I think we all get somewhat cynical. I think when we think about government and there's certainly reasons for that, there's bad actors, but that's by and large a very small minority. Those things are more interesting to see on TV. Those are the things that get highlighted. The mundane is just going through and reading the bills and altering legislation and going to work and vote and doing constituent services. Those things aren't really interesting or are headline grabbing as the bad actors are, the negative things that get highlighted.

There's certainly cause for being cynical about government. There's reasons whether it's 24/7 news and those things. The surprising thing to me really, because I went in there with that background too of watching the news and having some cynicism towards government and the way that things ought to be. Then you get there and you realize that there really are a lot of good people there that are trying to make a difference they're trying to serve. Some of the preconceptions that I had weren't necessarily the case once I got there. I think you learned that the further that you go. I can tell you that I really felt like I grew as an office holder, I felt like I grew as a person during my service. Really it was one that's been through too much formal education probably, but the best education I ever had was serving in a legislature. Again, it was just a really rewarding experience.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. It's interesting. You alluded to there's people that may have cynicism about government or particularly the legislative process. I think, like you said, a lot of that it's probably made for TV type stuff. You don't see the writing and reading of bills and negotiating of all the little elements of that. Particularly in Washington, it seems so divisive or divided right now even more than other times, just in my life or my professional career. One thing along those lines, one thing we talk about a lot on our podcast is innovation. A lot of times that's innovation in business or products or things like that. I wanted to ask you about innovation in politic. Certainly we've seen innovation in recent years with the way politicians campaign, social media and everything, and the way they fundraise.

That has changed in the last 10 or 15 or 20 years just with technology. Certainly you know the way politicians communicate with their constituents, we've seen really the use of Twitter by president Trump is loved it, hate it or whatever. It's an innovative way to, for him to get a message out to the people, I think there's been a lot of innovation in those elements. Do you see, whether at the state level or the federal level, is there any part of the actual legislative process that may be right for innovation? It seems sometimes though those wheels of government grind pretty slow, the cares act withstanding. Maybe we'll talk about that in a few minutes but that's a lot, it's a very hand to hand person to person sport sometimes to negotiate, to legislate, come up with these laws and everything. Do you see anything that could be innovative in that process that might make it smoother, more efficient, more effective? Or is it just the nature of the beast?

Ken Miller:

As you were talking Aaron, I thought about parliament and the House of Commons and the wigs and the screaming and the shouting and all that goes on there in the House of Commons in great Britain and thought, "It doesn't seem like they've had a lot of innovation over the centuries there. But they seem to do okay." No, I think there has been a lot of innovation. Certainly right now, the house has been like we are, the state house has been self quarantined and working remotely, and they passed the... changed the rules so that they could vote remotely for the first time, I think for some ever in Oklahoma where the house can go about its business and vote remotely. Technology has allowed that. If you go to the capital now, the house and the Senator streamed, you can watch them live. In fact, I was interested in an amendment that was put on a bill when the house was in session.

I went online and pulled it up, went to that bill number and watched the debate on that particular bill. Because I needed information, I wasn't there when it actually happened. Technology has really allowed a lot greater access. Yes, I think there are tools that are making it more accessible, more efficient. Having said that, there are some causes for the frustrations that we have with government and it can be a really slow process and it can be get bogged down in partisan politics. I've said it a million times, the strongest thing I ever saw in government was the status quo because it usually prevails. Because whenever you change the status quo, there's winners and losers on any particular change.

I think that will always be the case where you can innovate and do things faster and more efficiently, but it seems it's going to be very difficult to get a get away from the partisan divide and the different divisions that are even within the caucuses. There's innovation, there's technology changes that are making, I think, things better. At the end of the day, you're still going to have the political pressures to bear, but I think government by and large, it's pretty good at responding to a crisis. I think you see that in DC. I think you see that here in Oklahoma, throughout the states. I think one criticism, I think a lot of us have of government is it's not very proactive. But it's pretty good at being reactive.

Certainly when you see a crisis such as this and the measures that Congress is taking and the White House for the fiscal stimulus packages, the measures that you've seen the fed take with the monetary stimulus that's being provided. You've seen some really unprecedented moves to try to mitigate the damaging effects of this pandemic. I think those will pay off in a recovery once we get there.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's interesting. Some good points. Let's talk a little bit about your time as treasurer. You were the state treasurer of Oklahoma from January of 11 through 2019. Is that about right?

Ken Miller:

Right.

Aaron Ackerman:

Dates right there. If you just think about that time period, there was certainly some economic cycles that you worked through as the treasurer and some other probably events. What are some of the biggest moments? Whether they were huge victories for you or the state of Oklahoma or the really challenging times, what were some of those watershed moments that happened when you were the treasurer during that eight year time period?

Ken Miller:

Of course the first one I think about is predates me being treasurer. It was when I was in the State House as the Chair of Appropriations and Budget. We went through the great recession. We had pretty huge slashes to the budget for two fiscal cycles. That's definitely a moment where you saw the legislature come together and try to do some of the things that are being done now to mitigate cuts to the state agencies, finding ways to move things around, utilize the rainy day fund, take stimulus funds and plug holes and do that thing. Then that created a... It got us through a tough time. The problem was we continued using some of those crutches once we got into the recovery and we had a big problem of using one time sources of revenue to plug budget holes.

That was necessary during the great recession. But once we recovered from that, we continued to do that to prop up spending at a greater level that our revenues would afford. When I became treasurer, we worked pretty diligently to try to wean the state away from those practices. We would get there. We'd just about get there. Then we'd hit another downturn in the oil patch and go through a down cycle again. We'd start going back to those one time sources of revenue, which again are appropriate during downturns, but not much during the upturn. That was something that I think if you look back, and of course we had a monthly newsletter that we put out. That's probably the thing that I harp on more than anything was trying to implement sound financial practices and wean ourselves away from those bandaid approaches that we got used to.

Another issue that was really important to me and gave me my 15 moments on the TV show, 60 Minutes, was fighting some of the life insurance companies who were not willing to pay beneficiaries unless they filed a claim. Many families would not know that their loved one that passed away, left the policy to them. Some companies had a practice of not paying that unless family knew about it and filed for the claim. If they didn't file for the claim and they kept the money and we're talking billions and billions and billions of dollars of these assets that went unclaimed. We tried to work with the insurance companies to change that policy and get these money to the families. It's pretty tough, but after the 60 Minute show, then the worst offenders finally caved. That's something I feel really good about and had a small part in trying to write that wrong. That was something that I'll always look back on and feel good about. Honestly Aaron, there's so many things and it's just becomes your job and they don't really stick out to you as being watershed moments. That's certainly one that does.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's awesome. Who was the resistance there? Obviously insurance companies, were you working with the state insurance commissioner or professional associations? What was that whole process like as far as who were you negotiating with? Who was pushing back on that? To most of us it's like, "That makes total sense. It's grotesque to not pay somebody when their loved ones died and they've got a policy that had been paid for."

Ken Miller:

At this point with basically all the companies, insurance companies are complying now with what we were trying to do. I hate to malign them any further that I already did. We didn't really work with the insurance commission's office. I think sometimes because that office is an elected position as is the state treasurer, their constituencies are the insurance companies themselves. Sometimes it's tough to take an adverse position from where they are. The reason that I was involved as state treasurer is because of the unclaimed property program that's housed in the treasurer's office. Those monies if they go unclaimed, we were arguing, should be turned over to the state treasuries across the states. Then the state treasuries then work through their unclaimed properties to give those monies back to their rightful owners.

That was why it was under my purview. The insurance commission I think now does have something on their website to help direct people to these monies and help them with that process. By and large, it was the state treasuries across the country that were putting up this fight against the bad actor life insurance companies. I will say it was largely an out-of-state life insurance company issue that the company in state were complying with us. There were some notable, very large nationwide companies that were offenders, but I'll leave it to you to go watch the old 60 minute tape and go see who they are and they are compliant now.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Very good. What about from a local economic and budgetary standpoint? I know that for the last couple of decades, probably longer than that, governmental leaders and business and civic leaders, particularly in the state of Oklahoma have really been intentional about trying to introduce some diversification to the Oklahoma economy where it's not incredibly dependent on oil and gas. I think there will always be a concentration around that industry to some extent, but I think a lot of progress is been made there. Like I said, in the last decade or two. What was that like from your seat? Obviously you would be a proponent of a broader diversified economy, but was that a real intentional thing that you played a part in? How did that transpire during your tenure as the treasure?

Ken Miller:

That's a good question Aaron. There's always discussion about diversifying the Oklahoma economy. Of course, I think most of us will be for more diversification of everything. Regardless of the topic, diversification seems to be a good thing, whether you're talking about your own investment portfolio, you're talking about the economy. It's just a good thing, diversification. That's not going to change. I would say this, the Oklahoma has diversified its economy. It will do more diversification of its economy. It's not going to change the natural endowment that this state is very, very blessed have. It is a commodity rich state, and we are going to remain a commodity driven state at least through my lifetime. There are many things that the state can try to do to assist the private sector in that diversification.

I think you see some of that with the Quality Jobs Act, which is a very good program that the state has to help with that diversification and creating jobs. You see lots of effort being put into things. My predecessor Scott [ Medium 00:26:45] is working with a quasi state agency to help invest and seed companies. Then you have Oscar over there of... Gosh, I'm actually going blank on the name of the agents see that he is in. Anyway, there's lots of state entities that are either agencies or affiliated with agencies that are helping to seed and grow and diversify the economy. That's a good thing, and that will continue. Even that down our education system as well, with a focus on stem and stem jobs and those things. Those efforts will continue. I think that's a really good thing. Certainly we're blessed with a lot of aerospace and certainly with the presence of the military here, that's big for our state. But we're still going to be commodity driven. I just don't see that changing, we're still going to have to deal with the up and down cycles that it brings.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's right. I think you said it right. That states with that, I like the way you put it, endowed with certain attributes and it's a blessing. I think that's a great way to look at it.

Ken Miller:

If you look at the history of our unemployment rate, Oklahoma's typically one to two percentage points below the national average for unemployment. Wile we will, during times like this, when it's a down cycle for oil and gas industry. We'll start diversify. Taking on the average about one to two percentage points below the national employment rate throughout our history tells me at least that it's been a blessing to be a commodity state.

Aaron Ackerman:

No doubt. Let me ask you a little bit... As an economist, this has got to be a fascinating time for you right now. As far as I know, it's pretty unprecedented for the government to voluntarily just completely shut down an economy for what looks like it'll be a quarter, or maybe more pumping in whatever it ends up $5, $6 trillion to try to keep things going. Just from an economic standpoint, what do you see as the long term ripple effects of this good or bad? I'm not going to hold you to this. I know you're crystal ball is as foggy as mine probably. What do you see on the horizon? You see a good bounce back that would be pretty quick? Or is this going to be something that at least leaves a shadow for a long, long time?

Ken Miller:

When they say economists have two arms. With this situation, with COVID 19, you're probably going to see a bunch of economists grow a bunch of arms is my guess. Because I don't think anyone really knows... We have the alphabet soup of recoveries. You have, is it a W? Is it a U? Is it a V? Is it an L? As far as what does GDP growth look like going forward, you have people predicting all of those. That there'll be, with a W, there's a very steep drop. Then there may be somewhat of a recovery. Then if this wave comes back in the fall, or as they say it could, and you're going to have another fall and then another recovery. There you have the W right. Everybody wants to see a V where we had a very quick economic fall and a very quick economic recovery, straight down, straight back up. That's the best case scenario. That's the one that I certainly hope that we get.

You see folks predicting that, and you see others predicting this very steep decline and a gradual but slow tick back up. Then further out then a more steep, upward trajectory, which would be the U. Then some are even saying it, it could be an L, where we have very steep fall and then a flat recovery where some things just don't recover. Driving across town, I've seen some restaurants that have just taken down their sign. They're not saying, "we'll be back soon," or "we're closed." They have literally taken the sign down, which is pretty good indication that they're not coming back. You'll probably see some of that. I think you'll also see some benefits come from this disaster where there will be some innovations or some things that we learned that we could do during this shutdown that perhaps were effective and good, good tools and were efficient for our economy.

I think there's going to be some takeaways that we will want to continue. Aaron, I wish I knew, I wish I had that crystal ball that said that this is the way the recovery's going to be. With something like this virus, we just don't know what it's going to do next. We don't know if we're going to have that breakthrough that will equip us with the vaccine or the remedy that we won't go through a relapse or another wave of this. We're not even out of this wave yet. I saw the governor just extended a shelter at home, or stay safer at home until May 15th for the vulnerable population. That's continued to be pushed out in some places and in some places are opening up. Of course, as we have learned, boy have we learned, how interconnected this world is. What happens in another state can then bleed over to another.

Certainly that's true with the country this. Man, we're such a small world these day. People traveling back and forth to and from everywhere. We all have to have these safe practices so that we don't cause economic hardship for our neighbors. We just don't know. Our crystal ball doesn't show us what the virus is going to do, what our response to the virus medically is going to do. Then of course, that will then lead us to how our economy is going to respond with a quick recovery or a very slow one. I don't know, I wish I did. I don't think anyone at this point can really know.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. I think you made an awesome point in there about just the interconnectedness and not even just of all of the states in the US but of the world. It reminded me, I'm thinking back to, I was working in the corporate finance department for a locally owned media company with television stations. Get up one morning and see the news that there was, this was years ago, but there was this horrific tsunami in Japan. I remember sitting here in Oklahoma city with this owned TV station, thinking about how terrible and sad that was. It didn't occur to me that it was going that it would really have a big impact on me. It wasn't very long before I realized a big portion of revenue for a local TV station is from local car dealer and national auto automobile manufacturers.

Aaron Ackerman:

All of those cars and even American made cars have a lot of parts with the supply chain that runs through Japan. Almost overnight a big, a double digit percentage of revenue for those advertisers that were in that industry, it just stopped. That's when I was like, "Wow. This global economy is connected, interconnected." Something that happens in Japan affects a family owned business in Oklahoma city. I think we're seeing that obviously here as well. Then you think back to the politics. Business people, they think one way. Politicians think another way. You get this geopolitical tension that exists between countries and regions and introduces another wrinkle into that economic transactional process. It's scary in a way it's great in a way. Really, I think fascinating, but a great point that sometimes I go about my day and feel like I'm just untouchable driving around my town and my community. The truth is we're more connected than we know probably with people all around.

Ken Miller:

No doubt, no doubt.

Aaron Ackerman:

Very cool. I wanted to ask you a little bit about, maybe you can take this whatever direction you want. You're now in a leadership position in corporate America at OGNE after having been in politics and in a classroom for quite a number of years. You alluded earlier to all of the learning and growth that you went through as a state representative. Maybe what are some lessons? Or how have you been shaped as a leader? Or conversely, how have you been impacted by mentors that you've picked up along the way? Tackle whichever one of those strikes you.

Ken Miller:

Yeah. That's that's a good question. That's one I think you have to reflect on. It's like, hmm. I've had many that I've learned from. I don't know that I could put my finger on a mentor, but I can certainly talk about a whole bunch of them. A whole bunch of people that I respect and admire that have impacted my life and helped me along my way. Certainly Ray Von is one of them. I think he's one of the best people that I've ever known. I told Ray, I'd vote for him for anything he ran for, from dog catcher to president. Because I just think he's an outstanding individual. Of course he's served in the state house for a number of years and then went on and served as a county officer on the county commissioner and has just recently moved to Tulsa to be with his and grandkids there. He certainly won.

Another one that I think is Don Millican with Kaiser-Francis in Tulsa, another OC chairman of the board that I got to know very well in his role there. Also in his role at Kaiser Francis with George Kaiser and his enterprise is another great friend of mine and someone that I still seek out advice from because he's one of the wisest people I've ever known. Of course, back in education, you certainly have those teachers that impacted your... and helped shaped who you've become and even what you studied.

I picked economics because I loved my economics professor at Lipscomb University. Truly had no idea what I wanted to major in when I got to Lisko, which is my undergraduate Alma Mater. That was one of the general ed courses I had to take like everybody else, macroeconomics. I took it and I think I actually liked the professor more than I liked the subject. I wanted to do well in that class because I really liked liked him. I studied hard and had success academically and in that class. Then I took all his classes and next thing I knew I had an economics degree.

Aaron Ackerman:

I think that turned out to be a pretty good decision.

Ken Miller:

It was. Then same thing happened when I was at Pepperdine there. Again, it was my economics professor that really stood out as that professor that I was most drawn to. He was phenomenal, he was on the national council of economic advisors for president Nixon and of course with a tremendous storyteller. Hearing him tell us stories of the Nixon administration, which as you might know, has a lot of good stories. He was fascinating and certainly helped shaped my career and actually wrote me a recommendation so I could get into the University of Oklahoma PhD program. I could talk all day about influencers in my life and would find it fun. Your listeners might not.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. No, I think it's important though, to reflect on that, appreciate those people. As opportunities are presented to us to be that person for somebody else that's coming up, to be intentional about it. If you went back and talked to those people, they might be surprised that you view them as a mentor, or maybe they wouldn't. It just speaks to what's on the inside of that person.

Ken Miller:

Absolutely. They're probably more surprised that you ended up making something of yourself instead that they were a mentor. I really could think of many people that have had a positive impact on my life and lots of them here. People that admire Larry Nichols, David [inaudible 00:40:39], two businessmen in the city. My current boss, [ Shawn Troskey 00:00:40:42]. He and I are the same age, but he's a great minded person to learn from as well. You really never quit learning, I hope. No matter what age you are or what plays in life, you are what your job is. We never stop learning if we keep an open mind to it. I try to look at each day as an opportunity to grow and learn, and hopefully we all do some of that.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's cool. I appreciate those transparency and those answers. Well, Ken we're coming to the end of our time. I've got a few questions that we always like to ask every guest. If you're up for that, I'm going to hit you with those now.

Ken Miller:

Sure. It's just like rapid fire stuff or...

Aaron Ackerman:

It's just hot seat, man. Whatever comes hot.

Ken Miller:

Great. Okay, hot seat. All right.

Aaron Ackerman:

What was the first way you ever remember making money?

Ken Miller:

Pulling out my teeth. Tooth fairy.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right. I think that's the first time we've had that answer. You had a profit mode, were you a little aggressive about getting [inaudible 00:41:50]

Ken Miller:

Yeah, I had to eat liquid baby food until I was 14. No, my first pay was not by my parents, would be as a tennis instructor the summer before my senior year of high school at a tennis camp.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay, cool. What would you be doing if you weren't doing what you're doing now? If you hadn't spent the last part of your life as a politician and now in regulatory and legislative corporate affairs, if you weren't doing that, had to go do some other career, what would that be?

Ken Miller:

I started out in my professional career in banking. I worked for a company called Metafax. After that, which was a Ross Perot company. Now it's owned, I think by whatever that online medical place is that we all go to freak ourself out. What's the name of that?

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, WebMD?

Ken Miller:

WebMD, yes. It's owned by web MD now. I would say if I had not gone back to school and got my master's degree and think events happened there that led me to want to go into teaching. I love that. I would say I'd either be somewhere in the banking or investment world or teaching. As I was before I got involved in politics.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Very cool. Before we started recording, I asked you about teaching and you said, you really that you missed the students. I don't think I ever had you for class. I know my brother did and a lot of people I know did. You were always a very popular teacher at Oklahoma Christian, but you can tell when somebody really cares about the students they're teaching that's pretty awesome.

Ken Miller:

Yeah. I remember Preston, because he was a front row guy. That probably doesn't surprise you here. Preston was a front row guy, always front and center in class. He turned out all right. FBI agent, he's doing well.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, no doubt.

Ken Miller:

He made an A too. I remember that.

Aaron Ackerman:

I think he almost always made an A. I was a good student. He was a really good student. I was always trying to keep pace with him. Thanks for bringing that up, it's soft subject there.

Ken Miller:

No. As I mentioned, Preston is a FBI agent now. He called me when I was the state treasurer and he's like, "Ken, can we talk?" I'm like, "I didn't do it. It wasn't me."

Aaron Ackerman:

He's going to find all of us. No, good stuff. What would you like to go back in and tell your 20 year old self?

Ken Miller:

On one hand and I would say a lot of things. Like, don't seek validation in what others think of you and to trudge your own course, be an individual and do what's right for you, don't feel like you have to conform to the norm. That might be one. Because I think we all spend too much time worried about what other people think of us. Especially when we're in the earlier years of our life, about that 20 year old time, high school and college time, you're probably more concerned about that. Maybe that. I'm someone that gets laser focused on whatever my priority is at the time and I can become oblivious to everything else, but that thing.

Maybe I'd tell myself to multitask a little bit better and pay attention to the other priorities as well that you sometimes might let go and especially relationships, friends, family. That old cliche, on their deathbed, they wish they hadn't spent more time at the office. I think that probably rings true to a lot of people. I lost my mom a couple years ago. Boy, I wish she was still around for me to spend time with. Those things are important. I would say don't be laser focused on that one priority, but remember that there's a bunch of priorities. Then I would also say this on the other hand, since I'm an economist, I do feel that we're all the sum of our life experiences. The experiences that we go through, whether they're painful or joyous, they help shape us into who we are. I think there's things that I'd do different. I also feel like each thing that along the way that's come about has helped shape the person that I am today. I'm not sure I'll changed a lot.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's awesome. You actually created a great segue to the next question with your comment that we're this sum of all of our life experiences. If you were going to put all of those key life experiences into a book, what would be the name of your autobiography?

Ken Miller:

Yeah, that's a really tough question. I have no idea. I really have no idea. My friends would probably... They're always kidding me after I went to Pepperdine they called me Malibu Ken, I really don't like that one. I don't really like that one. I'm hoping that's not the name of my book. There was a treasurer in Oklahoma and in the lobby, we have a picture of all the past treasurers. There was one called they called Cowboy Pink. I always try to get my office to call me Cowboy Blue. Maybe that, Cowboy Blue. It never caught on, so probably not either. I really don't know. That's what I'd have to think about. My favorite book, it's called The Little Engine That Could. I don't know, "I Thought I Could." Who knows?

Aaron Ackerman:

That's good. Well, I'm going to vote for Malibu Can as the title, the unauthorized, unofficial.

Ken Miller:

Great.

Aaron Ackerman:

What's the the best advice you've ever received?

Ken Miller:

That's another tough one because I don't think I could single it down into the one best advice that I ever received. Probably the best things I was taught were probably all from my mother, who put that book into my hands at an early age, The Little Engine That Could, because she really did instill in me and my brother whose PhD biochemist teaches that the OU medical school and does research at Dean McGee. She really did instill in us that we could do anything that we set our minds to, as long as we worked hard. Really the book teaches you about optimism and the power of hard work and that if you think you can, you can. It's just the power of being positive and working hard.

The best advice I got, I'm not sure it was one thing, but I'm pretty sure that it was all those things that my mother who by and large was a single mom that she instilled in me and my brother that enabled us to become overachiever perhaps. She was a wonderful parent and really is the foundation that me and my brother launched from. Now the advice that I've gotten that sticks out of my mind, maybe it was good advice, but it's also a little bit funny. One of those was from Ray Vaughn and it was on swearing in day back in 2004, and then after the swearing in ceremonies, he and I went back to the members lounge and were taking pictures with pages, which is what you do, end up doing all the time. Forgot what the movie was. It says, What Do I Do With My Hands, what was that Aaron?

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, yeah. It was Will Ferrell in the... What was it? Talladega Knights.

Ken Miller:

Yeah. I made that Quip because I wasn't used to posing for photographs. I wasn't used to that. It was my first day. I nervously made the comment, "What do I do with my hands?" to be a little funny. [inaudible 00:50:00] I think it was a female page. He said, I'll give you some advice from all these photo ops you're going to do. If you're standing for a photo with a girl, don't touch her. Then he goes, actually don't touch the guys either. That was my advice from Ray Von, my first day on the job of the state legislator.

Then Jack Skaggs, who I think you also know Aaron, who was the Dean of the business school. I was just starting the PhD program at OU. He said, let me give you some advice as you start your PhD program, get on your knees and don't get up until they put a a hood over your head. That was very good advice as you're [inaudible 00:50:44] for years and years, until they put that hood over your head and call your doctor. You're not in such a great position. Those are the two pieces of advice I remember. They were good advice, but they were more funny than anything, but the foundation [inaudible 00:51:03]

Aaron Ackerman:

I think we came up with your book title too. It's, Where Do I Put My Hands?

Ken Miller:

Yeah. Great movie though.

Aaron Ackerman:

That was great. Again, thanks man. Thank you much. I appreciate all the... your service to the state of Oklahoma, obviously, but on a personal note, I've really appreciated your friendship over the years. Even when we may not cross paths every week or month, when I do see you're always gracious. Man, I really appreciate that. Thank you much. Thank you for your time today. I just hope you're able to stay safe and staying and work through this COVID 19. Hopefully one day we'll be able to get together and go grab coffee or something.

Ken Miller:

That sounds great. Aaron, thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. Thank you for being a great campaign treasurer back in the day. Stay healthy.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right, man. Appreciate it. Talk to you later.

Ken Miller:

Bye. See yo. Bye bye.

Aaron Ackerman:

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