9. Gina Wilson - Oklahoma Central Credit Union

Gina Wilson:

Is the digital revolution that has really changed, not only banking, but almost anything you do as a consumer. We do financial education for several groups here, not only from adults, but to children. We are giving back to our community.

Robert Wagner:

From HoganTaylor CPAs and advisors, I'm Robert Wagner. And this is How That Happened, a business and innovation success podcast. Each episode of the show, we sit down with the business and community leaders behind thriving organizations to learn how business and innovation success actually happens.

Robert Wagner:

Our guest today is Gina Wilson. Gina, is the CEO of Oklahoma Central Credit Union. Oklahoma central is based in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and boast over 46,000 members and more than $500 million in assets. Gina, thanks for joining us on the How That Happened podcast today.

Gina Wilson:

Oh, glad to be here.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Thanks so much. Gina, the podcast is about business and innovation and success. So let's think about innovation in the credit union space. And you've been the CEO for quite a few years, and so you've seen a lot of change. So what has been the biggest thing from an innovation standpoint, you think in terms of delivering services to members?

Gina Wilson:

I think the biggest innovation is that face to face, that personal interaction in person or on the phone is now in a mobile device. It's on a computer, it's on the internet. And I would think for any financial institution that has been the biggest challenge, is how do we keep our service level still personal now that you want to deal with us on a mobile phone? That's been the biggest. Yes, we've had email, we've had a website. Our website is constantly changing because it used to be a book of information and now it's had to have become more of an e-commerce to our membership.

Gina Wilson:

So online banking, who would've thought that you could sign on and look at your account, you can do almost anything you want to on that online banking versus having to go through a teller line and say, "Can you prep my statement? Can you do this for me?" So it is the digital revolution that has really changed, not only banking, but almost anything you do as a consumer.

Robert Wagner:

Right. Right. So what is it taking... Because you guys are a good size organization but you're not a behemoth organization.

Gina Wilson:

Correct.

Robert Wagner:

So what does it take to stay up with the pace of change and the investment that's required? And not just the monetary investment, but the investment of mind share. You have to learn about these things, right? Your team does. What do you guys do to keep up with that kind of stuff?

Gina Wilson:

One of the beautiful things of a credit union's business model as I stated earlier is cooperative. So we as an industry have to collaborate together because yes, we are not the behemoth on the corner that has 20 programmers that can make the next best thing. So we do a lot of round tables, whether it be from the CEO to the senior management, we attend a lot of conferences and we have vendors that help us get where we need to be. And as a credit union, we will take a calculated risk, but we have to really do our due diligence because we don't have the luxury to say, "Oh, that bell and whistle is going to work," and then it doesn't, because it does take a lot of resources. So it's a lot of collaboration, we tend a lot of FinTechs. But from a marketing standpoint, we do survey our membership and say, "Help us. If there's something new, tell us what that is so that we take that information and we prioritize where we do need to put our resources."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. It's very interest because in the accounting space, we're looking at collaborations amongst firms in this very same thing. And we here at HoganTaylor, we are part of groups. It's just coming together now where we're actually thinking about these very same things to pull resources to develop an app or develop some additional service capabilities. So I think it's a great way to deal with innovation, is to look at people who are in the same industry but not competing necessarily and use the resources that you have because you can pull together.

Gina Wilson:

And that is such to a great point that we are able to go to, let's just say our core processor. If there's 10 of us needing the same thing, we're in a better negotiation point to work with them that if Oklahoma Central just went by themselves, that price tag got really real big. But I think in what you just stated there, one of the very unique things with credit unions is that we are local, not all of us, but Oklahoma Central we're local, but we have a network that is shared amongst credit unions across this country, so that Robert, if you have to fly to, let's say Chicago, and you need access to Oklahoma Central, there are shared service credit unions that allow you to go in and bank as if you were at your home branch.

Gina Wilson:

That's very unique to credit unions, but that's a great example, how we pulled resources through an industry partner, and we can allow you to transact business all across this country without actually having to change account. We share ATM networks, because we cannot compete with a Bank of America that has 50,000. But when you put all the ATMs together in the industry, yeah, we can service you and we can service you fairly well.

Robert Wagner:

Gotcha. Gotcha. So I'm thinking about in the payment world right now, at the consumer level. We've got Venmo and Google Pay, Apple Pay. How are those things touching your organization and how do you interact with them?

Gina Wilson:

Well, I can tell you our teller transactions as a whole are declining, but our memberships not declining. However, our automated clearinghouse is climbing, online bill pay is climbing. Venmo, we don't have that product per se, but we do see through the automated clearinghouse channel where it's being used. But I think it's still 50/50. I think your younger consumer is using more of the Venmo, whereas there's still the set of us that we can accomplish almost anything through our online banking.

Gina Wilson:

Apple Pay, it came out with a big bang, but it took a while for retail establishments to really be able to support it. And I think that hurts some of its delivery. But we offer all those payment processes, and we truly haven't seen a lot of significant growth with the Apple Pays and things of that nature. But it's out there, it can be easy, but it's still a little bit difficult for somebody to want to give that information if you will, through an app.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. Okay. What do you think you guys do better than anybody else does?

Gina Wilson:

Well, I believe we do several, but the one I do believe that is our niche if you will, is we have automated over 85, 90% of our loan decisioning. So we can turn a loan answer to you within minutes, within an hour. If you don't want to come in and see us, you can do it online. You'll know your approval process in that respect. And one of the feedbacks that we get, because we do have lending at dealerships, and really we only do it because it's a point of sale. We hear that over and over again from the dealerships is, "Oklahoma Central, you guys are quick, you get it done, you get it answered." And that's what our member expects us to do. So in the lending side of it, we're very quick. We can respond to you very quickly. We have automated even your loan papers. You used to have to come in and sit for 45 minutes into a officer's office. No, you don't have to come in. You can sign documents electronically and so forth.

Gina Wilson:

So I think that's a niche that we have found that we service our members very, very well. And again, we're very personable when you do choose to do business with us. And I think the other thing that we're extremely well is we have put a lot of investment in financial education so much that we have our own foundation now. And our foundation has people out in the community. We do financial education for several groups here, not only from adults, but to children. And when we look at the Tulsa area, we're one, if not the only that is doing what we're doing today, everybody can say they're doing financial education. We have boots on the ground and that has been helpful to us because it has given us some identity in the community that we're just not another financial institution, that we are giving back to our community. And you don't have to be a member, we're going to groups that they may not have members associated with us.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. That is a huge area. We do a lot of wellness here at the firm and we have various sessions on financial wellness, we're at a CPA firm, right? But it's still needed, that personal finance piece. And like you say, if you go out into other areas, people just soak it up because they're not getting it anywhere else.

Gina Wilson:

Oh exactly. And we have found particularly, and you can probably relate, because in my household, my parents' finances were private. And so we have found working with school-aged children, they don't have a good understanding of how money works, and let alone how to save it or where to put it. And we know that's not a bad reflection on a parent. It's just we grew up in a society that you don't talk religion church or your personal business. And these children they're hungry for it. And it's been a very worthwhile program for us with young kids.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So go back to the industry and you guys as an organization, and we touched on this a second ago around the collaboration with peers. But again, going back to technology and investment that's required, do you feel the pressure as the leader of the organization to get bigger, faster so that you can continue to invest in that? Or you're showing this up in other ways so that collaboration, for example?

Gina Wilson:

Right. Well, I can go back to the philosophy of the board of directors. And in a credit union, those board of directors are volunteers that come from the membership. So number one at heart is their vision of, are you doing the right things for the right reasons? And they tell me over and over again, "We are not in the business to grow, just to be growing. We want to grow organically. We want to grow as long as it's in the best interest of the people that we serve." And so that keeps us grounded and it keeps us from... There's probably things we couldn't do to grow rapidly, but at the end it would be very self-serving and it would not do anything for our membership. So in that statement, we have to pick those items where we need to grow.

Gina Wilson:

The first thing that we always ask is who is it going to help? Is it going to help Oklahoma Central or is it going to help the member? If it helps the member and it makes their life easier, then that's where we put the resources, because in this industry and where you are today with FinTech and technology, there's so many bells and whistles that you could buy. And if it doesn't work, as I stated earlier, then you just spent money that you can't recoup.

Gina Wilson:

So that's the first question we always ask, is it going to benefit the member? Because if we put that focus there, we're going to grow naturally. And that's that board of directors that we have. That's their mantra. That's what they push constantly is... I'm not saying that they keep us within rails. They're just saying, "If you're going to detour, let's make sure you've got that detour path correct so you don't end up at a dead end."

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Well we're back to one of the differences, right? Because nowhere in what you just described was there a shareholder or an owner, things like that, that is expecting a return, so the member first piece is certainly a difference for the credit union. One of the ways you grow and have grown is by building branches. And I think I read recently you're working on building a new branch-

Gina Wilson:

Number 11. Yes.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. And it was interesting in what I read was that there was a bit of a delay in the start of construction because you wanted to incorporate some new technology that's coming down the path. So what kind of things are we talking about?

Gina Wilson:

They're called interactive teller machines. And that is a big word meaning. It's a box that you and I doing this podcast today, even though I can see you and you can see me, the ITMs provide for you to have a central location for that member to converse with. They're not in that building. They're most likely would be at our 41st in Garnet. You would not be able to see them, but the machines allow you to do anything and everything you want to do. And you don't even have to speak with a person unless you have a question, that's interactive teller machine. Is like an ATM on steroids, if you will.

Gina Wilson:

But they're becoming more implemented in financial institutions. Number one, it's a very costly endeavor, but the jury still on how well it's being accepted because credit unions are very personal. We interact with you, so now you're going to take that personal. I can look you in the eye and have a conversation to a machine that I'm going to come on a video screen to talk to you. But we know that the success that we have researched has mainly been in drive throughs because it can take a five to eight minute transaction and make it a minute, particularly if you don't want to talk to anybody.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. Well, consumers love that. They love speed.

Gina Wilson:

Exactly. Exactly.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. About the branches still, there's been the forecast of the demise of the branch for, I don't know, 20 years now. Why do we still have branches?

Gina Wilson:

I'm so glad you asked that question. My board ask me that constantly. Because there is still that mindset of trust and security that a consumer wants from their financial institution. Yes, they want to be able to access you digitally, but if they need to come into that branch, they want to know that you do have a physical location, or if they want to come in and talk to someone, they need a physical location even if they just drive by it every day.

Gina Wilson:

How that's impacting our business model is we are putting resources into our staff to be more of certified financial counselors, if you will, because that's really what's happening. Because as I stated, you can do a loan without even coming to see us. You can do transactions without even coming to see us. But there is this switch of, "I want to save money. How do I do that?" And so they still want to come in and talk about that. And so we've recognized that and are in the early beginnings of working with our staff to get at them certified. But the branch is not going to go away. They still want to touch it and feel it when it's about their financial wellbeing. We did a survey and we thought the young people would not want that. No, they have more of a mindset of, "Yes, I want to know that you're there if I need you."

Robert Wagner:

So what is that? It's very interesting you're talking about elevating the skillset acquired of the people in the branch. What's that going to do from a hiring standpoint and what qualifications are you going to be looking for in that person?

Gina Wilson:

Good question. Very good question. We've had to look at our hiring practices more from a personal assessment of who this potential employee is versus putting so much into their resume of, I went to this college, I went to this, I have this, because we're learning credit unions are different. And I think everybody understands that. And for someone that's never worked in a credit union and they come to work at a credit union, you spend so much time just educating them on what a credit union is. Why are we different? It's really changed our hiring that we're looking for personality, we're looking for...

Gina Wilson:

I just spent a week at Disney going through their training and wow, they do a phenomenal job. But when you look at their hiring practices to hire a cast member, we as a financial institution, because of the changing environment, we have to look that way too, because it is about interacting with you. And plus, as a credit union, we already have their trust, so why would they not want to come and visit with us on their financial future? But we just have to make sure we hire that right person, we can't educate them, we can't get them certified, but for us, it's, you're personable. You want to be there, you really want to help. And that's been challenging for our HR department. We do a lot more personal assessments than we've done in the past. Usually you hire if somebody could count cash and been in cashier, you were hired. So we've taken that back a step.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Yeah. And is a great example of how things are changing. Like you said, you used to hire probably for the technical abilities, right? You count cash, you can do certain kind of financial type things, right? And so now we're in this world where the robots can do these things, you don't have to talk to someone-

Gina Wilson:

Example, ITM.

Robert Wagner:

Right. And so you can interact with your financial institution and your credit union that way if you want. But then if you want to talk to someone, it needs to be a different kind of person. And I think this is what almost every industry is facing, is how are needs changing around people? What are their skill sets going to have to be? And how do we recruit to that? How do we train to that? What do we tell the colleges and universities that we need them to be doing to help train to this new world? So it's a big, big thing. You're talking about hiring and testing our personalities and what are stressors for people and all this, how they can react in certain situations. That is a huge bow wave of things coming, I think in all industries.

Gina Wilson:

Exactly. And I think you're starting to see more articles from companies saying college degrees are important. They will always be important. But in this environment they don't necessarily have to be the front runner. Because again, you're looking for that person to train. And so yes, education's important, but you and I both know the first thing you used to look at in a resume was where they went to college. Now that's not always the first thing you look at, it's what is their life experiences and what is their true job experiences? That's what we look at.

Robert Wagner:

Well, what else is coming in terms of technology in the financial institution world? I think about my personal needs and I think I've got everything I need. But then inevitably something's going to come around and I think, "Wow, that's really cool. I'm glad I've got that." So what else is coming? You've mentioned the ITMs-

Gina Wilson:

The ITMs, which is huge because as I said, it is supporting the business model to be able to act one on one with people in a financial wellbeing. But quite frankly, when you look at just transactions and products and services, it's really hard to say, what is the next big thing? Because right now as financial institutions, we pretty much offer the same thing. And yes, credit unions may be a little bit behind in technology because of the resources, but I have yet to see anything and maybe this blockchain, if I ever understand it, maybe the next big thing, but I can't honestly say, it's this, because I can't put my fingers around what else would you be offering that somebody's really looking for right now? Who knows? People may be able to come their own bank. I don't know.

Robert Wagner:

Right. Right. Are you feeling any pressure from the 100% online banks?

Gina Wilson:

No, no. We know it's out there but we haven't really seen how it's impact our business. I think where we may see a little bit is in the economic environment that we're in for an older individual, that the internet banks can offer sometimes a higher rate because they don't have the overhead and expenses that brick-and-mortar does. However, we have learned that we've had to teach our membership to read the fine print, because there are things that are built in there that it's not a gotcha. It's just more there's fees that they weren't aware of when they saw that great rate. So at some point it circles back, but we really haven't seen it. And I think it goes back to my statement, there's still this strong need to know that my financial institutions at 49th in Peoria, I still think that brick and mortar still wins that imagery that you are there if I have to go in.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. So you've touched on the whole issue of risk management and dealing with risk. What do you have to think about in terms of cyber risk to the institution?

Gina Wilson:

Cyber does keep me awake at night, not just from a business, but also from personal, because we have spent resources and time and money to protect the credit union. And it's not just once a month we have to look at what our security is within our walls. We're looking every hour, we're looking every day because it's constant. So there's not a lot of new things that we look at. We're just constantly reassuring and testing our own selves that we are protected, because you go out there and you find any article or any podcast on the deep dark web, oh, I'd never sleep.

Gina Wilson:

But we do the best that we can every day to ensure, and we're testing ourselves. We pay two or three providers to test our systems, to penetrate our systems. But I don't think there's a one size fits all way tool to protect you from cybersecurity, there's a thousand different tools that we use, but it is on our minds every hour.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. This has to be one of the big changes though over the tenure of your leadership. If you think about risks 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you're thinking about the vault, right? The physical vault-

Gina Wilson:

Exactly.

Robert Wagner:

... and robberies. And of course, you still have to think about that and you have security for that. But I would venture to guess that the actual financial risk and the reputational risk to the organization is much, much greater around cyber. And it's just this things just blown up on us.

Gina Wilson:

Well, I think what the consumer or just the outside world of a financial institution thinks is that we have all these tools on our systems. That's just one part of protecting cybersecurity. The most important part is our employees because they have email, they have phone and you just turn on the news every day and there's some scam, but we're not inoculated to those scams that we work just as hard, if not harder, to continually educate our employees on what's fishy. The newest one that has been circling is... I'm on LinkedIn but LinkedIn to me is a problem for a financial institution, because if you have Gina Wilson out there, and then I have other employees that are connected with me, it doesn't take much for a person that wants to do wrong to find out who my accounting manager is, or my VP of finances and send an email on my behalf unbeknownst to me, to ask them to wire money.

Gina Wilson:

We practice, we talk, we preach every 30 minutes that says, there are things to look for constantly, because now that's what's happening in my opinion, just like the consumer it's hard for them to get through our walls, but our employees are a little bit more easier to access. And to me, that's our biggest concern is continually, because you bring in new employees and you bring in employees maybe four or five a week. Well, probably that's probably too many, but still you're trying to train them what a credit union is, and then you have to spend so much time teaching them what somebody from the outside could potentially do to fraud the credit union.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah, we totally agree. It's really irrefutable that employees are the biggest risks organizations. And we preach to our clients that what we just said, the employees are the biggest risk and you have to keep this in front of them all the time. And here at HoganTaylor, we do monthly training. So you get a training you have to do, it's about 15 minutes and it's about these things. Staying away or staying on top, everyone keep them on top of mind, because it is the biggest risk. And you mentioned you hire people, you hire firms to do attack and penetration services, is what it's called. And we do those services as well. The guys who do that will tell you that when they do a test of any size organization, they get the keys to the kingdom 100% of the time. 100% of the time someone will give your credentials up and they're in your network. And so it's a great point just to be ever vigilant. Well, let's pivot a little bit to your personal story.

Gina Wilson:

Okay.

Robert Wagner:

So where did you start your career?

Gina Wilson:

I started my career part-time with World and Tribune Federal Credit Union. I actually, during the summers, I worked at newspaper printing, which actually serviced the Tulsa World and the Tulsa Tribune, so it tells people how old I am. But anyway, I was working at the time for the chairman of the board of World and Tribune Credit Union. And World and Tribune, their debts were getting a little bit and their delinquency was rising and I actually collected retail advertising. And he said, "Any interest in moonlighting?" And I said, "Doing what?" So he told me and I said, "Well, sure, I can do that." So I began part-time collecting, which I tell this story to my staff and they just can't believe it because I worked with people every day that I had to call and get payment.

Gina Wilson:

But I changed my name because I thought, well, I can't be Gina Wilson when I make that phone call because I'm probably eating lunch with them tomorrow. I went by Ann Dunn. My middle name is Ann and I was Dunning people. I'm a little bit old. So one thing led to another, that World and Tribune built a new branch at fifth in Peoria, which is now Oklahoma Central. So I went over there full time as a collector for the credit union. I did collections, I was a teller, I became a loan officer. I did almost every position there. In April of 1990, Oklahoma Central Credit Union purchased, acquired World and Tribune. And at that point I went into the counting department and I worked accounting and I did back office. Now, granted I only had six hours from Oklahoma State, but hey, I was an accountant.

Robert Wagner:

That's how good Oklahoma State is.

Gina Wilson:

Exactly. I got the short courses. So then I worked 1992, probably 95, 96 that I got my break in marketing. And that's actually what I studied. Troy Higgins at the time was the CEO. And he took a chance on me and let me do marketing and business development. And I was doing that at the time that he got sick. And they had to do some changes while he was out and so I was fortunate that the board of directors, because I was in marketing and business development, they gave me the opportunity to be the interim CEO in February 2001. And they did a national search and it actually became between myself and another gentleman who just recently retired from a credit union as the CEO for Oklahoma Central Credit Union. And I was fortunate that I was chosen. So I've been the permanent CEO since January, 2002.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. All right. So let's back up. So what does it mean to do marketing and business development for the credit union?

Gina Wilson:

Marketing and business development. Business development, if you think about Oklahoma Central, our field of membership is comprised of a thousand plus small employee groups. We're different from a close sponsor like American Airlines, that's a close sponsor because you have to work for American Airlines. So in business development, my role of my team was to go into these employee groups and we would bring them workshops, we would have employee drives for them, because at the time we were a free benefit, we're still a free benefit for the companies and we become part of their benefit fairs and so forth. So business development in that respect was that we would work the relationships we already have. And then the other part of it was to go work with companies that would love to have a credit union but they weren't big enough to start their own credit union. That was business development.

Gina Wilson:

Marketing back in the early days was a cut and paste newsletter. Yeah. I'll never forget that. I think I still have my first one. But it evolved into marketing in the sense of marketing your membership to use the credit union for different products and services. Now you fast forward it's about branding, it's about share of the wallet. It's about top of mind. Marketing has just taken on a whole different aspect. I still have my hands in it because that's my first love is marketing, but it's a different concept. We're not beating on the doors of businesses, but most of our marketing and business development is done by referrals. That's what you asked earlier, what sets us apart? We have an unbelievable amount of referrals that come into the credit union because of someone that's already experienced us.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. All right, Gina, I appreciate you being with us today. So we're coming up to the end of our time here, but we have five questions that we ask all of our guests. So are you ready?

Gina Wilson:

Ready?

Robert Wagner:

Okay. What was the first way you made money?

Gina Wilson:

I scooped ice cream. It was a Baskin-Robbins and I think I was 14.

Robert Wagner:

And where was this?

Gina Wilson:

81st and Harvard.

Robert Wagner:

In Tulsa?

Gina Wilson:

In Tulsa. And I worked part-time and to this day I can teach you how to scoop the best scoop of ice cream.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. It was good training?

Gina Wilson:

Yes.

Robert Wagner:

Okay. So question two is if you were not the CEO of Oklahoma Central, what would you be doing?

Gina Wilson:

Oh, knowing me, I'd probably still be at the newspaper because that's where I came from. The newspaper served me well as a teenager in high school. I don't know. That's a tough question for me because when I get the opportunity to talk to young people that are in college and we do have interns that come in and they say, "So if you were going to give me advice, what would I do if I'm a marketing major?" And I always tell them, "Go do internships." I didn't. I didn't because I worked. If I wasn't in class, I was working to have to put my way through college. So an internship to me and being unpaid made no sense for this jinx Oklahoma girl.

Gina Wilson:

So I always tell them that probably would've made the difference for me had I done internship because quite frankly, after collecting from the retail agencies, I would love to work for a big agency. I just think the creativeness and the ability to help a company with their brand, I would've loved that. But when I graduated, the recession was horrible. And so there were people, 15 deep that had more experience than I did and I was just a kid out of college. So yeah, I guess my answer is I would've loved to have worked for a big marketing agency had I done internships?

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. What would you tell your 20 year old self?

Gina Wilson:

I would tell my 20 year old self, "Stay at school and get your master and just have fun." I came out too early. Well, I was on the short plan, I guess these days, because I actually graduated in four years, which I understand that's not the norm. I can't sit here and tell you that the master's itself would have helped me professionally at the credit union. But I just think where I was in my young life, I enjoyed college. I enjoyed Stillwater, Oklahoma. Yeah, I probably would've stayed to get my master's because over the years, my earlier years, I went to TU and did an introduction to a master program. I've done strategy training that really fuels me. So I feel that if I would've got my master's and set that foundation, it may have helped me do things quicker than in my earlier years than it did.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. Gotcha. So question number four is based on a premise that everyone's got a book rolling around in their head, what would the title of your book be?

Gina Wilson:

I think that would be, don't ever be afraid to do anything that's asked of you. And the reason I say that is I was taught early in my development by my mentor, is never not take an opportunity to learn something new. And I know that's hard for some people, but if you go back to this conversation and replay it, I've been a teller, I did collections. I probably drove some bosses crazy because once I mastered something, let me do that, let me do this or they asked me to do that.

Gina Wilson:

And I'll never forget early on in my CEO internship, an employee saw me unplugging a toilet at the branch. And you would've thought the look on her face. And I said, "It's okay." She said, "Why are you doing that?" I said, "Well, why wouldn't I have done that?" She goes, "Oh." She just turned around and walked out. But that's just an example of don't ever be afraid to do anything. But I just felt as a leader, why would I leave that for somebody else to do?. I happened upon it. Can't say I liked it, but I did it.

Robert Wagner:

Right. Okay. So quick diversion here maybe, you mentioned a mentor there, would you like to tell us about that person?

Gina Wilson:

My mentor was the gentleman that I worked for at World and Tribune. He was my boss. And he just had a way about him that I could pretty well tell him anything, but he really pushed me to do things out of my comfort zone. A good example is I was collecting from a big marketing agency out of New York. Now I was a whole bit of 22 years old. They owed the newspaper millions of dollars for a particular department store here in town. And I've learned marketing agencies back then, they waited till the very last minute to pay you.

Gina Wilson:

And so I just told him, I said, "They're not going to pay. They're not going to pay." And he said, "Well, you just get back on the phone and you call them, you're going to cut their ad." And I said, "I'm going to do what?" He said, "You tell them their ad is not going to run." And I said, "I can't do that." He goes, "Oh yeah, you can." I said, "Okay." Well, I called them back and I'm 22 years old. And I told them, I said, "I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be able to run your ad." What do you mean, "You're not going to run my ad?" I said, "You owe us X, and if you can't get it here within so many minutes, I'm not writing your ad." "Well, you can't do that." I said, "Oh, I can."

Gina Wilson:

Well, he's listening to me. And sure enough, they said, "Okay." I remember him asking me, "Are they sending it?" I said, "I'm not really for sure." But it wasn't a little bit later that accounting notified him that the agency has sent their money. And so he came out and he said, "You got your money." I said, "I got my money?" He goes, "Yeah, you got your money." And it was those type incidents that he would not let me back away because obviously he saw something in me that I couldn't see myself. But to this day, he's a member of Oklahoma Central Credit Union. And even when he comes in, I always tell people, that's my mentor. He says, "Oh, would you stop that?" I'd say, "But it's true." Because he taught me a lot of moxie, if you will. Yeah. And to this day, he's a good guy. He's retired and we still have a great, great relationship.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. And aren't we thankful for people like that in our lives [crosstalk 00:46:19].

Gina Wilson:

Oh, absolutely.

Robert Wagner:

There's just rarely anyone that you run into, who's been successful that didn't have a champion or two like that in their lives. And it's usually the kind of a similar story that, you've got this person, you've also got this board who saw something in you that you do not even see in yourself. And you probably don't even believe about yourself, but they believe in you. It propels you in an incredible way. Thank you for sharing that. So last question, what's the best piece of advice you ever been given?

Gina Wilson:

Oh, the best piece of advice I've ever been given is name of my book, Don't Be Afraid to Do Anything. And I still live by that. Getting a little bit older, so I think a little bit longer before I do it, but It has served me well.

Robert Wagner:

Yeah. All right. Thank you. Gina, thanks so much for being with us.

Gina Wilson:

Thank you, Robert.

Robert Wagner:

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Gina Wilson:

Thank you.

Robert Wagner:

That's all for this episode of How That Happened. Thank you for listening. Be sure to visit howthathappened.com for show notes and additional episodes. You can also subscribe to our show on iTunes, Google Play or Stitcher. Thanks for listening. This content is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. Copyright 2019 HoganTaylor LLP, all rights reserved. To view the HoganTaylor general terms and conditions visit www.hogantaylor.com.