80. David McLaughlin – Pendulum Coaching – Creating a Mindful Leader

David McLaughlin:

So I started out of high school, I became a professional musician. That's all I wanted to do when I was a kid. My grandma taught me how to play bass when I was 14 years old. My grandma was an incredible musician, she played all kinds of instruments. And my whole family's really musical, sings all kinds of stuff, and so I became a musician. I was a professional musician, I used to live on a tour bus and travel all over the country and did all that stuff. I had long hair and earring, it was a fun life.

Aaron Ackerman:

From Hogan Taylor, I'm Aaron Ackerman and this is How That Happened, A Business and Innovation Success podcast. On each episode of the show, we sit down with business and community leaders behind thriving organizations to learn how business and innovation success actually happens. My guest today is David McLaughlin. David is the founder of Pendulum Coaching. He has a master's degree in education and a BS in accounting from UCO, University of Central Oklahoma. David has over 20 years of experience in coaching and consulting, and has been committed to mindfulness and meditation for over 10 years. David is currently pursuing a PhD at Kansas State University and also hosts the podcast called The Mindful Leader.

David, thanks for joining me today.

David McLaughlin:

Thanks, Aaron. I'm excited to be here today. I appreciate you having me.

Aaron Ackerman:

You're welcome. Well, first of all, just tell us a little bit about Pendulum. What kind of work do you do with your clients and customers?

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. We do coaching for people who want to be better leaders, they want to improve their leadership ability. So I have clients that I do coaching with. It probably sounds like I just sit around and help them meditate, and that's not what we do. We talk about their leadership abilities and leadership needs, and we talk about mindfulness and there and that, but we do a lot of leadership coaching there. And then I go around and I speak on mindfulness and try to improve the mindfulness awareness of the mindfulness concepts. And I do that, and then I go into companies and help them teach their employees about mindfulness and meditation. And I'm passionate about mindfulness and meditation, and that's what I'm doing these days.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's awesome. All right. So maybe some people aren't familiar with the term mindfulness, so talk a little bit about what is mindfulness and how does meditation fit into that? I am a big proponent and I subscribe to Headspace, I really enjoy finding some quiet time to reflect and be meditative. But talk a little bit about in your context of working with business leaders, what is mindfulness and how do you see that?

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. I've been doing this as a career now since February and I've been told... And I didn't set out for this but I've been told it's nice that I do this more at a corporate level and that I'm not a hippie. And so I hadn't thought about that going into it but I'm like the business version of mindfulness. So first of all, mindfulness just means being aware and present in the moment. So all of us, we just get caught up in life, we're going along, we're very busy people and it's so easy to just be... I guess the opposite of mindfulness would be thoughtlessness, not in a mean way of thoughtlessness but we're just not thinking, we're not present. And so mindfulness is just being aware of what we're doing, very conscious and present in every moment which is really hard to be present every moment.

And so that's the goal, it's aspirational to be present every moment so that's the goal. And it's different from meditation, mindfulness and meditation are two different things. So mindfulness is more of the overarching concept or being present every moment, meditation is a tool to help you be more mindful. You can be mindful without meditating. I always say it's hard but you can be mindful without meditating.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. So I know you talk about employers being invested in their employees, and employees being invested and being thoughtful in their career and of the leaders. Part of that I'm probably oversimplifying is just being selfless in a sense, not always thinking about a situation and how it impacts me. I need to also think about, "Okay, I know how it impacts me. How does David feel about this? How does an employee? How does the leader feel?" So maybe talk just a little bit about your approach to both sides or both camps in a company, being invested and being thoughtful and mindful towards the whole situation.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. I like to think of it in an employer-employee relationship as being mutually beneficial and it's difficult. One thing I think we have to be aware is that the employer always has the upper hand, that's just a given. That's a fact, the employer always has the upper hand. They are the one who has the ability to hire, fire. They have the ability to give you the job. The employee is always at the mercy so to speak, of the employer. So employers have to recognize that they have that power over the employee. And on the other side, the employee, they have an obligation to meet the needs of the employer. Employers are not, as some employees tend to think, just a bottomless pit of money to hand out and just constantly give money, constantly give benefits. If the employer doesn't make a profit at some point they can't continue to give jobs. The company runs out of business or runs out of money, runs out of business and then nobody has a job. So that's why it's a mutual benefit when we take care of each other.

So in the mindfulness aspect of it, everybody has to take care of themself first of all. If at a corporate level, the corporate entity, one thing I always like to say is corporations despite what Supreme Courts say and all that kind of things, corporations aren't people. So a McDonald's logo doesn't make decisions, it's people who make decisions. So individuals have to take care of themselves and have to look after their own interests, their own values, and decide what kind of human am I going to be. And I think mindfulness plays a big part of that, you can be thoughtful, you can be introspective, you can decide who am I going to be. Am I over taxing myself? Nobody's going to force me to take care of myself, I have to decide to do all of that on my own. How many hours am I going to work? How am I going to treat people? All of that is my decision.

And then as a boss, if I'm a manager, if I'm a boss, no matter what level, if I'm the CEO or president of the company or if I have one person reporting to me, I have to decide how am I going to treat those people that report to me. And then if I'm the employee, I have to decide what kind of effort am I going to turn in. Am I going to give my best or am I going to... The big rage these days is talking about quiet quitting. Am I going to just...

Aaron Ackerman:

Start mailing it in and... Yeah.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. Am I going to mail it in? Am I going to pretend to work today? Am I going to give my employer my absolute best? So we invest in each other. And mindfulness comes in the taking care of myself, investing in myself, giving myself the best opportunity to be the best human I can be. But then the outputs of that are what I can give to others.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. No, that's great. So that is just really a beautiful sentiment and I'm a believer that people should do what they say they're going to do. And when you agree to work and get paid this much, until that agreement stops that is an obligation. You could take either side of this, how would you counsel employers or leaders who have employees that are clearly not giving their best, they're still on the payroll, they're still employed, but they're just not... Maybe they're the quiet quitters or whatever. Flip side, how would you counsel an employee who is not being treated well, who does not... Sometimes you may just have to go find a place where you can work hard and be healthy and everything. But how would you counsel people that are trying to be mindful, but feel like there's not reciprocation there?

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. Well, if I'm an employer, if I'm the boss, I'm the manager and I have someone who's not giving their best, there's a whole host of things to look at. First of all, I'm going to examine myself or the organization and the culture and the values that we're bringing. Are we the type of place that says, "Okay..." You just mentioned the employee made an agreement, "I'm going to work at this rate for... I agreed to work at this rate and do this work." Okay, so as an employer are we honoring that side of the agreement? Have we now asked the employee say, "Okay. I know you agreed to this but now we're also adding more on you. We had two people quit and now we're piling more on you, and we're not compensating you for that. We're not doing anything." And then we say, "Well, but you agreed to work here for this rate." "Yeah. But I didn't agree to do all of these other people's work for nothing else."

So we have to ask ourselves, are we being fair to that employee? Because then they get to a point where, "I don't know. Forget it. I'm not doing this." And so we said, "Well, you agreed to work here." But we are piling more on them than they actually agreed to work for. So we have to look at what kind of culture are we bringing. And there's a whole lot of that going on these days with all the great resignation and all that kind of stuff. So we have to ask ourselves, are we being fair to people?

If we are being fair to people and they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, then we have to ask, "Well, what else is going on in their lives?" It can be difficult to ask some personal questions. But I went through a situation at my last job where my mom was in the hospital for 285 days. Now, I feel like I was pulling my weight but if somebody had come to me and said, "David, I don't feel like you're pulling your weight." It would've been a fair question, because that was a lot to go through when my mom was in the hospital for 285 days, and every day I'm going to the hospital and trying to take care of my mom and all that. I wouldn't have been offended at all to have been asked that question, because that was a lot to go through. So people are going through all kinds of things in their life. There was also a time in my life when I was going through a divorce, nobody knew anything about that. And so people just deal with stuff in their lives.

For employees, we have to recognize that it is our obligation to give our best and to... We have to recognize that employers are looking for the next generation of leaders, the next generation of high performers. And you can't always expect them to pay for what they haven't seen yet. So you have to... I know a lot of younger employers say, "Well, it's not... Just because that's the way they used to do it, that's not the way we should do it now. Well, they used to work all these overtime hours and all that to prove themselves, I shouldn't have to do that now." I get that but there's still some component that you do need to prove yourself before we hand the keys to you. So you have to step up to the plate and demonstrate what you're capable of.

And you may not get paid for all of that, so step up to the plate and show what you're capable of because there's a whole lot of other people that we're evaluating, so we want to see who's hungry for it, who's capable. And you might want to do some of that without necessarily getting paid. So just lay it out there and show us that you want it.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's... I've talked to people before that they think that they should be getting paid more. And they ask me, "What do you think? What should you do about this?" And there's two ways you can go with it. One is... Well, all this extra work you can take the attitude of, "Well, I don't get paid to do that so I'm not going to do that." And my question is, "Okay, that's true. But do you think that's going to inspire the decision maker to give you more money?" Or you could be old fashioned about it and I tell people, "If you want to get paid more, then you need to do more than what you're currently getting paid to do." And that's just a reality.

You said something I think that's really important. You were talking about when your mom was in the hospital and the other situation when you were going through a divorce, if somebody had come to you and said, "David, is everything okay? I've noticed a little different performance." Or whatever. That's different than saying, "David, why are you being lazy?" Or, "Why..." A lot of times if I see somebody's behavior and I assign a motivation to it, that can be so dangerous and damaging which is different than having a hopeful interpretation like, "I think David's going through something because he's always been such a strong performer. Something's changed, we need to just find out what's going on and help him." As opposed to assigning a motivation which is many times incorrect. People are dynamic, there's always a hundred thousand things happening that nobody sees. Right?

David McLaughlin:

Right. Right. Plus, I had a very long track record of high performance and so if there was a dip, it's something that like, "Okay, if you have a track record of high performance, you might be able to get away with a little dip here and there." Instead of a track record of moderation or a track record of barely getting by, and then a performance down into low performance. So you want to bring your A game all the time, so if you do have a dip for some reason you're dipping down into average performance instead of dipping down into low performance.

Aaron Ackerman:

Sure. Yeah. No, that's good. You've got this statement or quote on your website that I really loved when I was doing research. This just jumped off the screen and I want to just ask you to expand on it and maybe how did you come up with it, and how is this meaningful to you. But the statement is, "Your current results are exactly because of your current investment. Change your investment to change your results."

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. So my undergraduate degree is in accounting and I used to work as a tax accountant in a former life, and it's about inputs and outputs. So we get out of life what we put into it. My grandpa was a farmer, he was a pastor and a farmer. And when I was a kid, we would go spend time in the summer with my grandparents and it's harvest.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, the law of the harvest.

David McLaughlin:

You reap what you sow. And if you're not satisfied with what you're getting, you have to change what you're giving. Yeah. It's just a fact. I can't keep doing the same thing every single day and expect a different result. If I want something different, I have to do something different. And this goes into your career, this goes into your pay, this goes into your relationships, this goes into every aspect of your life. Years ago, I was in my twenties and I heard a guy speaking and he said, "If you want to make different money, you have to do a different job." And that resonated with me, and I never forgot it. He said... And this is not to put any job down, I want to make that clear. Every position in life is important. But he said, "If you're a construction worker, a construction worker make a certain amount of money because they solve a particular problem." He said, "If you're a lawyer, a lawyer makes a different type of money because they solve a different type of problem."

And a construction worker, there's a skillset that certain people, a certain number of people can perform that job and so they get paid a certain amount of money. But then the lawyer, you have to have certain qualifications and those types of things and a limited number of people have those qualifications, and that's why they get paid a different set of money. So if you want it's like CPAs at [inaudible 00:19:48], so you have to have a certain qualifications to do that work, and that's why they get paid a different amount of money. And so if you want to make a different set of money, more money, go do work that is limited to make more money. And I was like, "Okay, this guy's on to something."

Aaron Ackerman:

He makes some sense.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. And then oddly enough, I went from being a tax accountant to working in HR so it was a... But part of that goes with passion also, what do you love, what want to do, and so you have to just combine all of those things in life from what you love, what you want to do, what kind of money do you want to make. You have to throw all that in the pot and decide what you want to do in life.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. So I'm glad you mentioned that, because I did want to ask you about your career path which you've had a couple pivots, and even just today as we're talking before we start recording I learned before you were a tax accountant, you were a musician.

David McLaughlin:

I was. Yes.

Aaron Ackerman:

So maybe talk a little bit about how that all fits together. And I think even if I'm right, David, you changed from a tax accountant to a trainer, corporate training at the same company. How does that happen where it's like, "I know I'm in your accounting department, but..."

David McLaughlin:

Yeah, that's right. So I started out of high school, I became a professional musician. That's all I wanted to do when I was a kid, my grandma taught me how to play bass when I was 14 years old. My grandma was an incredible musician, she played all kinds of instruments. And my whole family's really musical, sings all kinds of stuff and so I became a musician. I was a professional musician, I used to live on a tour bus and travel all over the country and did all that stuff. I had long hair and earring, it was a fun life. And then I got married, had kids and I had never gone to college. And I heard that guy talk that I was talking about, and I was like, "I need to make more money." So I went to school, became an accountant, and it was a tax accountant. I loved it. Tax accounting was so much fun, I really loved it. I never did not...

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. You're being serious, not sarcastic?

David McLaughlin:

I'm dead serious. I'm absolutely dead serious.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. I just want to clarify.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. Yeah. I loved it. It was great fun. And I worked at a CPA firm in Chicoche for a while, and then that was a long commute, I drove every day to Chicoche back and forth from Oklahoma City. And then American Fidelity recruited me and I came to American Fidelity, worked there for 18 years and great company, what a great company. And while I was at American Fidelity, it was actually my first week, they had a phenomenal training in development department, recognized actually worldwide as one of the top companies from training and development. And I had always worked for smaller organizations and I had actually taught seminars and things like that, in accounting and things like that. But I didn't know what training and development was, and when I saw that, I was like, "Whoa, what is this?" I was like, "Well, that's cool." And over the next few years...

Aaron Ackerman:

So that was the first week you had that experience?

David McLaughlin:

That's was my first week in American Fidelity. And I was like, "Well, that's really cool. That would be fun." But I kept working in the tax department, but I got to know more and more about the training and development world. And then after a few years, they had a position come open and I decided to change careers and move into training and development. And eventually ended up running that whole department as my career grew. And then while I was in training and development, that was a subset of HR and I got my HR certification and just became immersed in the HR community here in Oklahoma City. And I just loved the whole HR and the organizational development, all of that whole thing. But that's what I did at American Fidelity, it was over the training and development function. And it was a great career and I absolutely loved it.

And then it was while at American Fidelity, I got into mindfulness and that was just part of my life. And then back in February, I transitioned again. I thought, "I think I'm going to go out on my own and start this mindfulness coaching thing." Yeah, I've always been entrepreneurial and I always had a feeling at the back of my head that someday I'd start my own practice. And people kept asking me, "When are you going to start your own thing?" And so finally I just thought, "I think now's the time." And so I just launched out like a crazy person and decided to do this.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's awesome. So that's a big pivot too, you pivoted from music to tax accounting to training and HR. And then after almost 20 years in that career, you go launch on your own fully 100%. So first of all, congratulations.

David McLaughlin:

Thank you.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's really exciting for you.

David McLaughlin:

And then second, condolences, right? Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. But I wanted to ask you about the timing of that, not so much the timing in your career as far as being at one company for such a long time, but really just the timing in a point in history. We're on the heels of a global pandemic that really impacted everything about life, work, families, relationships, just literally everything. And I was curious to learn if your launch was strategic with that at all, because you're a professional, you've been looking at this and training and building expertise for a long time. Just as a armchair quarterback, I feel like the last couple of years has produced a lot of anxiety, a lot of mental health, challenges that are even more poignant than at any other time and in most of our lives. And so I see a need for somebody like you, David, to be able to coach and train on leadership and mindfulness and meditation as... I don't know if you did that on purpose or if it was serendipitous, but it seems like the right time for you to launch your business.

David McLaughlin:

I'd love to say it was that calculated... Gallup does a work culture survey every year, and in 2021 the results were it was the most stressed out workplace in history.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that doesn't surprise.

David McLaughlin:

And then they just released a couple of months ago the 2022 results. And they said, "Forget 2021. Now, 2022 is the most stressed out workplace in history." And so you're absolutely right, now is the time for that. And I'd love to say, "Yeah, that's exactly why I did it." That wasn't exactly how it worked out though. I just personally felt I had a great run at American Fidelity, it's an amazing company. I was very fortunate to be there, learned a lot while I was there. But I just personally felt like, "I think it's time for me to do this." And I love coaching, and that's what I was getting involved in is coaching leaders. And so I really thought I was going to do more of a leadership coaching with a little bit of my business, which on the coaching side is probably more what I do.

But when I first started, I thought, "I'm going to go on this little drive." It's really good for me to get out and drive by myself. I drive, I clear my head, I do a lot of good thinking and so my goal was to drive the Pacific Coast Highway out in California, which if nobody's ever done it may I highly recommend. It's amazing. So I went out and I'm driving, so I get to Denver and Salt Lake City and have a cousin in Reno I saw, and then I head out to San Francisco and then I drive about five days down towards San Diego and just all along the coast, just beautiful, taking pictures and it's great.

Well, I get down to... I want to say it was around Malibu. Of course, I'm meditating every day, doing my thing, thinking and... Excuse me. And it hits me, my practice doesn't need to be coaching on leaders with a little bit of mindfulness. It needs to be coaching leaders on mindfulness, really helping leaders center themselves on mindfulness because I really believe that practice will transform their leadership. In fact, at my PhD work that's what it's about, it's about mindful leadership. And I'm just convinced that the more mindful you become as a leader, it changes everything you do as a leader. And so I thought, "That's what I want to focus on." And then I thought, "Well, David. You might starve to death in Oklahoma if that's your focus." If I'm on the coasts, it's easy. If you're doing that in the Midwest, people think you're wanting them to change their religion which is not at all what it's about.

But I thought, "This may be a struggle." But it's going great, there's a lot of education that comes along with it. You have to teach people what mindfulness is, what it's about. But it's going great and I'm loving it and having a good time.

Aaron Ackerman:

That is awesome. Well, what else? Do you have anything else going on? Projects you're working on or anything you want to talk about that we haven't hit on?

David McLaughlin:

Sure. One thing I'm real excited about, it's not quite out yet but I've been doing a lot of writing and things. And I'm working on a... I'm not sure what the name of it's going to be yet, I name things last. But it's a 10 or 12 course module, it'll be an online module that employers or employees can purchase for that education part I was talking about. They'd learn more about mindfulness and meditation and just really helps them be better leaders and better employees. And so that'll be available in a couple of months probably, and I'm just really excited about that. It's going to help people in their mindfulness journey. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's great. Well, I can say that we had David at our firm meeting which is a thing we do once a year, we get everyone in the firm together. And this year we had I think five or six breakout rooms, and I was presenting in another room so I didn't get to go to David's room. But David led a meditation session in one of the rooms, and I heard a lot of good things from the employees and leaders that went through that. So thank you for helping us with that.

David McLaughlin:

Oh, thank you. It was a lot of fun. It was... Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

And I can give that referral too, because I heard nothing but good things.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah, thanks. It was a great group. You have a great team here and it was a lot of fun. It was a great meeting, the whole session was great. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. That's cool. So David, people want to learn more about you, listen to the podcast, find Pendulum. Where do they need to go to find you on internet, social media, whatever?

David McLaughlin:

Yeah, pendulumcoaching.com is the website and you can just find everything right there. You can get links to all my social media stuff, you can find the podcast there. If you want to find the podcast, you can also just Google the Mindful Leader and you can find it there. There are I think one or two other podcasts called the Mindful Leader, but mine's the only one in English. Yeah, I think there's a German one and something else, but mine's the only one in English. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's excellent. And I have listened to the podcast, know a few of the guests, and I think you always have... It's an interview format, right?

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

So he's got really interesting leaders and guests on there, so definitely go check that out as well.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah. Thank you.

Aaron Ackerman:

So David, we have five questions we ask all of our guests to wrap up. So if you're ready, I'll hit you with those now.

David McLaughlin:

Let's do it.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right. The first one is, what is the first way you ever remember making money?

David McLaughlin:

Oh, this is a good question. My very first... Well, making money. I was going to say my first job. The first way of ever making money is my grandparents would slip me money here and there.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's the best kind money, right.

David McLaughlin:

That's probably... Yeah, that's probably the best. My first job I ever had was I worked at a Mexican restaurant in Moore, Oklahoma for two days. I was a bus boy for two days, I was 14. The lady told me she was going to pay me a minimum wage and then at the end of the two days, it was on a weekend, she didn't pay me, she had decided she was going to pay me half of that and so this is a fun story. And then I said, "Well, you said you were going to pay me a minimum wage." She said, "Well, I changed my mind." I said, "Well, you're serving liquor without a license. If you don't pay me what you told me you were going to pay me, I'm going to go to the police and tell." And she said, "Do whatever you want to do." So I literally went to the police department and told them she was serving liquor without a license, and the guy just looked at me like I was crazy. And that was on a Saturday night, and then Monday morning she was shut down.

Aaron Ackerman:

Oh, man.

David McLaughlin:

I was so proud of myself.

Aaron Ackerman:

That is a good one. That's a unique story. All right. This is a good one for you, David. What would you be doing if you had a completely different career?

David McLaughlin:

Music. I'd just be rocking and rolling. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's really cool.

David McLaughlin:

I love music so much.

Aaron Ackerman:

And do you still get to play just for your own enjoyment or...

David McLaughlin:

I don't play anymore, but I listen to music all the time and I love the history of music and stuff but... When does this come out?

Aaron Ackerman:

This probably... A couple of weeks.

David McLaughlin:

A couple of weeks?

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah.

David McLaughlin:

Okay. I'll just say stay tuned.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay, awesome.

David McLaughlin:

I have some dreams, hopes and dreams. Yeah, Just stay tuned.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right. I like it. We got a little bit of a spoiler right there. What would you like to go back and tell your 20 year old self?

David McLaughlin:

So I'm a real honest and transparent guy, I just lay it out there. I would tell my 20 year old self, don't stop jogging because it is way too hard to lose the weight. Yeah, that's what I would say. Don't stop jogging.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's good. That's really good. A lot of the answers we get on that are sometimes...

David McLaughlin:

Invest in Apple?

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, definitely stuff like that. Amazon.

David McLaughlin:

That popped in my mind too. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah. But sometimes we get, "Don't take your health for granted because when you're 20 you feel like you can eat anything, do whatever you want."

David McLaughlin:

You're bullet proof. Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, that's good. What's the title... What would be the title of your autobiography?

David McLaughlin:

I just thought of a tacky one.

Aaron Ackerman:

Tacky is good.

David McLaughlin:

No. Oh, I would name it "Given to Fly" which is also the name of my favorite song by Pearl Jam.

Aaron Ackerman:

Okay. Awesome.

David McLaughlin:

And the song is like a retelling of Allegory of the Cave by Plato, where the guy... Well, in the song he learns he can fly and he tries to tell others you can fly, and they beat him up and he's just trying to help them. And I love that so much, and I love Allegory of the Cave, you become enlightened and you're trying to help people and they want to put you back in chains and I love that so much.

Aaron Ackerman:

Really Cool.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah.

Aaron Ackerman:

All right, last one. What's the best advice you've ever received?

David McLaughlin:

Can I cuss one here? I won't. So I'll say it without the bad word. I have a friend who's one of my best friends, who told me, "Don't get wrapped up in peripheral stuff that's not meaningful. Save your energy for magical crap." Save your energy for the magical stuff in life and I think of that every single day.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's really cool.

David McLaughlin:

We can get sidelined by stuff that doesn't matter. And when you start feeling yourself getting distracted, remember to save your energy for the magical stuff.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, I love it. That is good.

David McLaughlin:

I think of it every single day and I'm grateful to her for telling me that. It's so meaningful.

Aaron Ackerman:

That's fantastic. Well, that's a good one to end on. I love it. Well, David. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show and for your transparency and...

David McLaughlin:

Thank you.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, appreciate what you're doing and we'll put the website and the show notes so people can go find you easily. And congratulations and best of luck as you go forward with Pendulum.

David McLaughlin:

Thank you. I appreciate it, Aaron.

Aaron Ackerman:

Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much.

David McLaughlin:

Yeah, thanks.

Aaron Ackerman:

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